S2E3: The Reality of Showing Up Fully as a Black Woman in Predominantly White Christian Spaces - Patricia Taylor
I am so grateful and honored to have had this amazing conversation with the beautiful and wise Patricia Taylor.
I sincerely hope that my listeners will lean in and listen closely to her important story, because it's something we all need to hear.
The fact is, racism is real in America and it's real in church. When toxic theology and unhealthy patriarchal leadership are met head-on with the reality of what it's like and how it feels to be Black in this country, the result can be significant gaslighting and spiritual abuse. That has been the experience of many, and it has been Patricia's experience as well. I'm truly inspired by her commitment to telling the truth in the face of so much resistance and opposition, and by how she has decided to fully show up as herself, even when it costs her.
How can we do better as believers when it comes to racial justice? What can we do to lean in, listen, receive, and grow from hearing and believing the stories of our Black brothers and sisters? Patricia addresses these questions and others in this episode - out of desire for change and the goodness of her heart. Because - as she states early in this interview - "I don't have to...be forward-facing in the advocacy work that I do. And I wholeheartedly believe that... especially for black women, people of color... we do not owe anyone our time, our energy, our efforts, our education. We're not a resource. We are humans."
Soak this one in, friends! And I'd love to hear your thoughts.
As always, if you're enjoying the podcast, please RATE AND REVIEW! :) It helps so much with getting the word out and with my ability to get incredible guests like Patricia on the show.
Thank you!
More about Patricia:
Patricia A. Taylor is a wife, mom, and California native turned Texas transplant. She believes in brown Jesus, loving all our neighbors, and having critical conversations around racial justice with clarity and candor. As an anti-racism educator, podcaster, and writer, she has had various speaking and teaching opportunities, including contributing to Sesame Street in Communities through education-based videos and course writing. You may connect with her work on Instagram @patricia_a_taylor and on Facebook at Some Thoughts From Your Black Friend by Patricia A. Taylor.
Connect with Patricia:
Instagram - @patricia_a_taylor
Facebook - Some Thoughts From Your Black Friend by Patricia A. Taylor
Connect with Gabi:
Instagram - @gabiruth
TikTok - @gabiruth84
Facebook - facebook.com/gabiruth84
Website - gabiruth.com
Coach with Gabi - gabiruth.com/book-a-1on1-call
Invite Gabi to Speak - gabiruth.com/speaking
(TRANSCRIPT) S2E3: The Reality of Showing Up Fully as a Black Woman in Predominantly White Christian Spaces - Patricia Taylor
Note: Transcript is created by AI. Please excuse any errors.
Gabi: [00:00:00] Hey, beautiful friends. Welcome back to Pain to Passion Live. We are now in season two, and I have our very first guest for season two here, and I'm so thrilled. My heart is, So full, because I get to speak with Patricia Taylor. I have been following this amazing human being on Instagram. I don't know, probably three or four years at this point.
I feel like it's been a long time. Um, and. As you guys know, I love being able to create real relationships on Instagram. Like it's very possible if you utilize it properly. Um, but I just have so much respect for Patricia, what she stands for, who she is. She's also really good at lip syncing.
Patricia: I have many talents.
Gabi: Okay, so many talents, but that one is definitely like top of the list though. Patricia, thank you for being here. [00:01:00]
Patricia: Thank you for having me, and I did not realize that I was the first guest of your second season, so I feel extra special. Yay. Like, hello. Hi.
Gabi: Yeah. Super cool. So I've been excited, kind of like keeping it under wraps.
Oh, we have someone special coming
Patricia: and it's true, like I feel like, you know, I'm not, I'm not young anymore, but as a young kid say, I feel like, yeah, Abby, you've been one of the day ones like from, you know, when I. Started this particular page and addressing the issues that I discussed. Uh, you've, you've been there and you've been consistent and you've been learning and growing and there and in it, and I just appreciate it so much.
Well, thank you. The, thank that we've been able to con to connect in that way.
Gabi: Yes, yes, absolutely. And everything you say is so important and relevant and needed, and so you're one of those. Those accounts that I'll go out of my way to see like what's she posted recently, so I don't miss anything.
Patricia: Oh, thank you.
That really means a lot.
Gabi: Yeah. I mean it, it's true. But, um, for those of us who may not [00:02:00] know you or haven't been introduced to you yet, I would love for you to just share a little bit about who you are. I don't usually read bios on the show because I love hearing what people say about themselves. It's usually a.
Bit juicier. Right? So feel free, just tell us who Patricia is. I would love that.
Patricia: Ooh, who is Patricia today? No, I'm just kidding. It was like, I guess the answers could vary. I understand. You know, I am in a place of, I don't know how many, if you do or if any of your listeners have a word of the year. Um, it's something that I have done the last.
I guess handful of years. Really debated on doing it this year, because sometimes for me, I'm an engram one. I can like be very, you know, task oriented. Once I say I'm gonna do something, if I don't do it, then it's, oh, there's pressure and I failed and that's a whole other thing. But it, it really came to me in such a way that I knew that I had to hold onto it.
And my word for this year is, remember. And it was from [00:03:00] this quote that a friend sent me for my birthday, which is in November, so right before the end of the year, and it says she remembered who she was and the game changed. Mm. And so today I'm showing up, remembering who I was, knowing who I am. I. And trying to change the game in whatever ways that I can, in my little corner of the internet, in real life where I live in my locale with my children, within my family, with my friends.
I'm a black woman living in America, and I have an experience and I have, mm-hmm. A story to tell, many stories to tell. And I'm also an anti-racism educator, and I'm also a mother, and I'm also a friend, and I'm also a daughter. I'm also a sister. Mm-hmm. I'm also a whole human Right. But I. I want to be able to show up as my whole self and in the process I've been through some things, some of that pain that we'll, that we'll talk about that have, you know, threatened to have me question who I am and my fullness.
Yeah. And, and I'm back to reclaim and remember who that person is. [00:04:00]
Gabi: Ah, so much goodness. Already have like all the feelings in my guts. Just you talking about, um, remember like that word? Mm-hmm. And specifically remembering who you are. Yes. Like, That is such a powerful thing to focus on. And I feel like I keep running into this with different people in my space of just like, just like you said, who am I in my fullness?
Yes, absolutely. And if we can all get there and embrace that, like how incredible that would be, how healing that would be for ourselves, for each other. So anyway, I could go off on that cause I got really excited. Yes. But I would love for you to just kind of share your story of becoming this version of you and what brought you this far.
Patricia: Sure. Absolutely. Well, we can start at the point, uh, likely when you and I first connected, and so I, for years and years since I had my oldest daughter who is now 11. Oh my gosh. [00:05:00] Aw. Uh, but I had started a mommy blog and I was doing, you know, um, Marketing and influencing and things for collaborations with different companies.
And I did that for a while. I did that for a long while and I was grateful for that time. But like so many, when things became, uh, more in our faces on the news online, on social media about the murders of young black men, black people, and no accountability, police brutality. I was, I was shook to the core.
Mm-hmm. And not for the first time, but just in a different way. Like so many, Trayvon Martin was one of those pinpoint moments of what's happening. Mm-hmm. You know, Michael Brown, one of those moments and I, I really wrestled being a believer in Christ and being in this space at the time. [00:06:00] In California where I was attending, it was kind of like, it was a predominantly black church.
There was no question, we're gonna lift up these young men, pray about these situations, talk about these situations. Mm-hmm. And again, I know that's not everyone's cer, you know, experience, but that was mine. But then I started seeing things on social media from people who I knew. Who were not black and they were having huge issues with the statement Black Lives Matter, and they were, you know, bla blaming the victim and, well, he shouldn't have done this or he shouldn't have done that.
And I, I mean, it was so disorienting. I'm like, wait a second, wait a second, wait a second. I didn't think that a simple statement with three words affirming my life would create. All that it created as far as the backlash and the hatred and, and just the willful ignorance and misunderstanding and, and everything that's come of it.
And this was, you know, over a decade ago, but in the course of [00:07:00] that time, I had, I just had a lot of wrestling. You know, I, I'm living this experience as a black woman. But I'm not the only one. And you know, is it my place or space to speak out on these things? You know, there are plenty of other people. Why would anyone listen to me?
You know, I don't have to, I don't owe anyone anything. You know, like it's, it's okay. Like if I wanna kind of stay over here and, and take care of, of my children and, and do other things. I, I don't have to, you know, be forward facing in the advocacy work that I do. And I wholeheartedly believe that for, especially for black women, people of color, like we do not owe anyone our time, our energy, our efforts, our education.
We're not a resource. We are humans. Right? But for me, that that feeling would not leave, it would not go away. And so in the course of this time, we actually moved from the Bay Area, California to, which is where I'm from. To Georgia, about an hour and a half south of [00:08:00] Atlanta. And I'd been in that region before for college many, many years ago.
Um, but it was a whole different ballgame, you know, coming with the family and at that time, and people laugh when I say it, but it's true. We had family out there, but didn't, you know, have any friends and I, we befriended some really sweet people, some great people and, um, who happened to be white and they invited us to our church that was labeled as this diverse space in our family's multicultural.
And so we're like, oh, okay, we'll check it out. And, you know, I have biracial daughters and for a while it felt like, okay, this is, this is home. Mm-hmm. Until it didn't. Mm. Until I started to dread. That feeling on Sundays after whatever that week's police shooting was. Oh man. And I would see people that I sing in the choir with posting about how people need to stop whining and being the victims and [00:09:00] get over racism.
Oh man. Or I would go and the pastor would say, you know, I think the problem with all these Black Lives Matter people and all these Blue Lives Matter people, is they just need to know that Jesus loves him. And I'm like, wait, no, no, no. And at the same time, like I'm a, I'm a leader and I'm. I'm really trying, like, I'm trying to, to see what is my role in all this.
Again, like this is the question, like I can't shake it. Yeah. What's my role in all this? Do I have like it, it went finally from do I have a role in this to what's my role in this? I could at least be that honest with myself that I wasn't gonna let this go and God not want me to let this go. Mm-hmm. But at the same time I was, I was, you know, seen as a leader in the church.
I had leadership role. I, you know, was given different opportunities. And it started to feel very tokenized. Very tokenizing because the things that mattered to me living in this skin that I'm in, impacting people who look like me or being overlooked and ignored. Mm-hmm. [00:10:00] By the same people who were like, oh yeah, you know, share your testimony about this cuz we wanna, we wanna have the black woman, you know, to round out our, our panel.
Mm-hmm. But when it came to me in tears, you know, crying over. Accidentally seeing this video I didn't wanna see of, of this black man being murdered. It was like, oh, okay, well, you know, we just can't talk about that here. And so, um, I, I remember distinctly that, oh, I, it was a summer of 2016 I believe, cuz 2016 was quite the year, but I believe it was the summer of 2016 when both Lando Castile and oh and um, Elton Sterling were murdered by the police in the same week, and there was a police shooting in Dallas.
Mm-hmm. And I believe that you lived in Dallas for a time. I don't know if you were there then, but there, you know, were a couple, uh, police officers who were killed by a gunman. Yeah. [00:11:00] And all of it is, is horrible and tragic. And I remember specifically in four different spaces. Three actual in-person services, you know, meetings, gathering of sorts, and one as part of this kind of online for mothers, for Christian women that I was a part of at the time, all predominantly white spaces.
And in this same weekend from let's say FR Friday to Tuesday, these four different services, no one mentioned any of this at all except for one person at one point said, let's pray for the police officers and their families. Oh my gosh. And I was like, Uhhuh? Yes. And mm-hmm. Like, I'm, I'm like, yeah. I'm not disputing that.
And mm-hmm. There was nothing in one, in a couple of the spaces. There was online forums and I actually said, Hey, it's really important that we, we pray for this. It's really important that we bring this up. Wow. Never happened. [00:12:00] Wow. And so I, um, I could not, I could not take it anymore. And at that time it was like there were so many catalysts leading up to it, but that was the thing.
I felt invisible. I felt like if you don't care about these lives, then how do I think that you care about my life? Mm-hmm. And also, this is happening within the body of Christ where we're all supposed to matter to each other. And so I wrote, that was in the summer of 2016, that September. Because also we were talking about this a little bit before we pressed record, you know, it was like, like now the world's on fire in so many ways.
So, so many things were happening. But that's also when, uh, the protests were happening by Colin Kaepernick. Mm-hmm. And so, and awful things were being said about him and they were all race related. And I wrote a post that September that said some thoughts from your black friend. Mm. And it was basically a, I've [00:13:00] heard all that you've had to say, those of you within my context, because I'm not at all saying that other people were not feeling what I'm feeling or expressing it and I'm sure doing it better.
But where I was in my context, I didn't have anyone being that voice. Yeah. And I realized that I needed to be that voice. Wow. And it was for me to, to speak. And I said, I've heard you. Now it's time for you to hear me. This is what it's like to live in the current times. In the skin that I'm in trying to just exist, you know, and, and seeing people who claim that they love me, love my family, and are here for me and want me to bring my authentic self and be a part of the community.
And yet they want me to keep my, check my color out the door or, or don't talk about these hard things cuz they make me uncomfortable. And, and I was terrified. Like terrified. You know, you never know how people perceive you. You know, I've heard, right? I've [00:14:00] received messages. Cause people were like, you know when, when, when you write you just, it's a straightened point.
You know, you don't put your punches. And I'm like, well, I guess. But like, I was terrified Gabby because I knew, I knew where I was, I knew my context and I was like, if I really commit to this, I'm gonna experience a lot of loss. And a lot of pain. Yeah. I knew that that was coming. I knew that was coming and I made some changes, but still the pain and loss happened.
Right? And so at the that time, all of this. Was even before I began the page where you and I connected the Patricia underscore a underscore Taylor, where I shifted my focus away from mommy blogger to put it in the category, you know? Mm-hmm. Mommy blogger things into speaking up about advocacy and, and racial justice and, uh, anti-racism education.
And at the time I was part of a different church, uh, a church plant [00:15:00] that I was there from day one. Wow. You know, my youngest was, was still in my belly, you know, and it was, let's say a lot of growth has happened on my part too since then. But it was a church that was still white led, but from the beginning said, no, this is gonna be a fabric in our community, like within this church space.
We're gonna be different. We're gonna show up different. We're building this thing from the ground up. And, and we are not going to let you know race and racism and what's happening now, be apart from what we're doing. And, and I really believed it. Oh man. Until I hit too close to home and it was, it was so painful.
Yeah. Because I don't know about you, but it's hard to, to have hope for a lot of reasons. But I, I always wanted to see the [00:16:00] best in people. Like, don't get me wrong, I have boundaries. And especially when we're talking about online spaces, you know, cause I just, I can't, like, I cannot entertain the trolls and the hatred and people have no idea.
You know, just the way that some people will talk to you online and think that they can address you in any kind of way. Yeah. But in good faith, you know, I wanna believe that people really, I wanna believe the best in people. And I think that's a wonderful quality and I don't want ever wanna lose that, but I know in this case it was, it made things more complex because I'm hearing what I'm being told, but their actions aren't lining up with that.
Right. And then they'll do or say, just enough for me to be like, okay, okay, okay. Maybe they were listening. Okay, maybe they, they got it, you know, or I'll have this like super heavy conversation. And this, this happened. I mean, everything I was sharing are things that happened, but I had this really deep conversation after, [00:17:00] you know, what ex-wife situation that occurred and I gave our, my pastor at the time, permission to share, you know, a bit of that, you know, on the social media post that he was, he was writing, which was encouraging people to like, we need to listen to our black siblings right now.
Mm-hmm. And. Looking back, I realized his inconsistency was to do things like that, to make himself look good, to name himself an ally. But in our private conversations, he would constantly shut me down. He would tell me that everything I posted, he'd be in my dms all the time. Like he, like he was the most, oh no, I don't use social media ever, but he'd always be in my dms to tell me that my posts were giving him pause.
Like that was his favorite phrase. And I would, and I would always, like, I just got, I know, like I, I like, I think I threw up in my mouth a little bit saying it, but,
you know, [00:18:00] but it was, it was very, like I said, disorienting because I'm, I'm a part of there, this family, this community. I mean to the point that they. We'd asked them this couple who was leading our church, who I was best friends with, with wife, to be the godparent of our youngest child. Wow. Like, this was not like a flyby night, you know, relationship.
But as I found my voice and it took a while, you know, I, I first started that page a year before you probably found me and posted maybe five times all year. Cause I was terrified. Yeah. And, and I finally was like, okay, must rip the bandaid off, you know? And I finally just went for it, you know? And then, uh, the summer of 2020 happened and, and I felt like I was being shot out of a cannon.
Okay. But all the while, you know, God was like, well, you know, you've been preparing for this. So it may feel like it, but it's actually been years of [00:19:00] preparation for this moment. Mm-hmm. All this to say, um, And feel free to jump in and cut me off cuz I'm like, this is just, I'm telling my story. I love it. But I, for a solid two years was in this situation, if not longer, that I, I really wrestled, I really wrestled.
I, every time I've, I said something is very wrong. Mm-hmm. I know something is very wrong. But when I ask what's wrong, it would be deflection. It would be avoidance, it would be, you know, oh, no, no, no, I just wanna make sure that we're on the same pa, you know, all these things. Until it got to the point where I made the decision to take a step back.
Um, I did not officially leave at that point, but I took a step back. Covid was also happening then. Um, and that is, could be a whole other conversation in and of itself. I saw some things that really were disheartening in the way that the church was handling Covid [00:20:00] at the time. My mom almost died from Covid.
She almost lost her life. Oh, wow. And they were great at dropping off groceries, but then they, in a very surprising turn of events, opened up the doors and were not requiring masks very early on. Mm-hmm. And just a lot of things that occurred that I'm like, I am not in alignment with what I'm seeing, experiencing, witnessing, and still receiving this behind the doors.
Um, censoring right from leadership, and it got to the point where I was told directly, um, well, I should say this. I was ready to finally say, that's it. I can't do this anymore. Our family and I are officially going to leave this church. And it, it was heartbreaking because, Everything about our lives were wrapped up in this community.
Yeah. Because that's what they invite you to do. Mm-hmm. You know, is this is like, we're here for you. [00:21:00] Come as you are. You know, this is a space that you can be your authentic self until you make me uncomfortable. Then we want to throw it back. But, but all of our friendships, you know, our daughters friends, you know, our connections, were all in this space.
Mm-hmm. And. When we were finally making the decision, and we, we knew, like it's one of those things when, you know, but it takes a while to get there, you know, because it's just, it's not easy. Right. Um, but finally ready to have that conversation and say, and I, I, I still have the best. Hope even though mm-hmm.
I, I, I look back and realize that I had ex endured spiritual abuse. Yeah. There were conversations. I had one-on-one with the pastor at the time that were incredibly demeaning. They were abusive. Um, and along with racial trauma, along with toxic theology, just all wrapped up into one. Yeah. But that very week that the conversation [00:22:00] was to be had.
Uh, probably over FaceTime or online because I didn't trust them. How they're handling the pandemic. Uh, the year started with the insurrection. Yep. And they tiptoed around it. Uh, during the service that Sunday and also that weekend I saw that they unfollowed me on social media. The church, the church pages had unfollowed me on social media and I'm like, Wow.
Okay. Okay. I, I really wanted to do what I felt, and no one can define that for you, but what I felt was, was exiting with integrity, you know, and wanted to have this conversation and wanting to, to say, I, I knew that the friendship was over. I knew that unless major changes happened, which again, you never know, um, that it was gonna be over.
And [00:23:00] it was, it was crushing. But I also knew what I had to do and I was so hurt by being discarded in that way, in such a juvenile way. Mm-hmm. By the same people who had said before, oh, you know your voice that we want and need and we need you to lead this conversation because we don't know what we're doing.
But then when I leave the conversation, it's Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You can't lead. Cause I need to be the one to lead. I, the white man and with power, cuz I'm the one who's been appointed by God, I'm the one who needs to lead. Yeah. And so there are a million stories in between that, that I could share.
But we finally got to this point, I needed to take a little bit longer to after the insurrection occurred to, to address this. But I did, I had a conversation that, and I asked directly, you know, Why was I unfollowed, or how? Why did this happen? And there was a lot of, you know, stammering and kind of [00:24:00] jumping around.
But ultimately it was, oh yeah, that was me, but I meant to do it from my personal page. Oh my gosh. Because basically I was finding all your posten and they were, yeah, they weren't settling well with me. And I'm like, oh, the post where I'm calling out. Racism and white supremacy weren't setting well with you.
I'm gonna say this again, cause I said this numerous times. I think you need to look within yourself. Yeah. I think you have to just. Be introspective because you can say whatever you want and you can encourage the masses, do these things, but if you're not doing it for yourself, what good is it? Yeah. And that goes for all of us.
That goes for me too. I'm, I have to learn a lot, always. Mm-hmm. Things change and evolve, and I have to change and evolve too. And in that conversation turned out that there were grudges that, you know, the pastor had been holding against me for like eight, nine months. You know, basically for him it all came down to I was, I stepped outta my lane and had, um, disrespected his authority.
And so, [00:25:00] um, I got a letter. I got a letter, and it's, if you talk to, Many Bipo people, black, indigenous people of color, and many black women who have had this space and had their foray into white evangelical spaces. It's like there's a playbook. Yeah. And, and it doesn't make the pain any less, but there is something heartbreaking.
And also connecting when you know you're not the only one. Yeah. But. Again, pregnant belly from the beginning. Part of establishing this church as a leader walked into LE as leadership to ultimately getting a letter, an email listing all these grievances that he had been holding against me for nearly a year of this ongoing situation.
And there were things stated like your tone. Is the, is why we [00:26:00] can't have the levels of trust that both of us desire. Oh my gosh. And the way that you address me is a direct reflection of how you honor God and you will need to change. And, and maybe I've allowed too much room and space for familiarity, but you'll need to change or otherwise, your presence in our community is, is going to be a detriment.
And, and it went on and on and on and on and on and on and on. And then it wrapped up with, but do we love you and your family? Mm-hmm. And I know that I've said some hard things, but if you like to talk about it sometime, and I was like, I'm done. Mm-hmm. I'm done. I never looked back. Mm-hmm. I'm done. And that was it.
But the whole community was lost in that moment. Oh my gosh. One person [00:27:00] who was a dear friend kind of hung in there with me, but ultimately made her choice. Mm-hmm. You know, and, and I could not be in a space, and we shouldn't have to be in a space where as a victim of abuse, of racism, and, and these are white people, let me be clear because mm-hmm.
I'm not saying there are not issues and problems with churches of color as well, but that's not my story. Right. But I, I can't be friends with you. When you say to me, oh my gosh, I'm so sorry that this happened to you. You were victimized, but I'm gonna go listen to him preach on Sunday. Mm-hmm. Because it's just, you know, I just don't wanna go anywhere else.
This is where my husband wants us to stay, and, and that's complicated and that's not, you know, that's complicated. But I knew for me where I had to draw those lines and one person. For a while of this entire church community, would check in. Would check in, would check in, [00:28:00] and I still, it still hurts because it, it was still to her benefit in the sense that, not that I believe she was insincere, but I wonder if I had not had my knowledge and my experience to offer if she would've tapered off as well.
Mm-hmm. But she was at the time, a white woman fostering black children. And so she had a reason to be personally invested in racial dynamics in a way that most of the other congregation did not. Mm-hmm. And there were, you know, not many, but there were other, uh, you know, black families and families of color.
But the ones who stayed, or the ones who either did not speak up or rock the boat, or those who aligned with the idea that speaking of racism is more, uh, divisive than actually addressing racism. And that was not, nor was it ever gonna be me, so, no. So eventually that last, that last, you know, [00:29:00] relationship for whatever it was, it that also ended, you know, when a, a circumstance happened where this woman needed help and she got help from the pastor and from the church, and she kind of tried to come back to me and say, well, I know you've had their experience, your experience with them.
That was awful. But let me tell you about how helpful they were for me. And I, and I said, I can't do this anymore. I said, you know, um, people who are abused in whatever form aren't gonna abuse everybody cuz then the jig would be up. Totally. But also, of course they're gonna help because, and her, that situation is, you know, her details to share, but it was a situation in which he could look like the white savior and the hero.
Mm-hmm. And someone wasn't questioning him. How dare I, a black woman questioned this white man who God put in charge. Yeah. So in the, in one breath, he actually said, well, I just don't know what I'm doing and I wish I had someone who could help me in this conversation, [00:30:00] but in the next breath is you need to listen to my authority and how dare you overstep and do anything that would question my authority.
Mm-hmm. So it's been, it's been something that's really informed a lot of, of who I am in these recent years because, I mean, I'm in my early forties, you know, and, and I, I have such great respect and admiration and adoration for black women in particular, who are who they are. Hmm. At a young age and know who they are and will not compromise that.
And that was just not my story, you know? Yeah. For a lot of different reasons. I just, I had a lot of fear, a lot of. Too much concern for what other people would think and, you know, a lot of doubts. And for a while in there I did lose a bit of myself because when you're in that situation and people tell you who they [00:31:00] think you are, if you're not sure about who you know you are, then you can, you can start to, to take that on.
Yeah. And so I've, I've done, and I'm proud of myself for the healing work that I've done, and I've continued to do. And it isn't just in church spaces, but in other relationships and, and in, and just the way I show up in life, you know, the, the more I grow into myself and it's never too late to grow into yourself, you know?
But the more I grow into myself, the more I know what and who I'm not going to accept. Because if it's anyone or anything that's asking me to stay in the box that they've put me in, then I don't want it. You know, and, and I, I just, I can't go back, you know, I just, I can't go back. I think of, of Angel Reese and in all the controversy that this young black, confident woman, this baller, absolute baller stirred up because, I mean, white America was, [00:32:00] was so mad that she was unapologetic.
Yeah. And she just turned 21 like a week ago. Oh man. I mean, I, I just, it, yeah. Right. But I, I think of, of, of those examples, and I want so much for, for everyone, but particular because it's, it's my story for young black women to know. Being black and, and accepting your blackness and showing up in your full self does not need to be limited to stereotypes or caricatures.
It doesn't need to be limited to what people want to take from you, but then they don't want all of you and and that's helped to continue to inform this journey that I'm on, that I'm still gonna show up as me. And if I can't show up fully as me in this space or in this place or with these people, then I don't want it.
But it would be a lie to say that there isn't that huge pain involved because definitely we all want that belonging. [00:33:00] And we all want to know that who we are, and our core is fully accepted and we realize it's not. There's a pain there. Yeah. But if we can accept ourselves, then it does. It does make it easier because you'll also find your people.
Absolutely. You know? Yeah. Wow. There was one little, that's my little story. The end and goodbye.
Gabi: No, that was so amazing. Like, my mind is just like worrying with all of the different questions that I have and thoughts that I have. First of all, what I wanna say is I, I understand that feeling of like, um, Seeing the, this younger generation just step into their own.
Mm-hmm. And you're like, oh man, it's taken me a crap ton of work to get here.
Patricia: I could be your mama.
Gabi: Exactly. Like for real. But I think just [00:34:00] to give yourself a lot of credit, because it's people like you who have chosen to do this work, this hard work in this generation. Um, and this age group that we are in, um, Doing that work that has really paved the way for this younger generation to be able to step into that.
So I just wanna say kudos to you. Like you've done the hard work to do the thing, but it's such a beautiful example for those who are coming up behind you. Um, I think it's. Pretty freaking amazing. Thank you. And then the other, the other thoughts that I have, first of all is just this, as you're describing this dynamic that you had in your church, um, this spiritual abuse, like you said it straight out, it's so legitimate.
What you experienced as spiritual abuse and [00:35:00] wrapped up in you wanting to tell the truth about racism and your experience, which is a true experience for you and many others, and just. Like how this dynamic plays out in so many different ways mm-hmm. In church power areas. But all I could think about was like it's, it sounds exactly like being in a relationship with a narcissist.
Yes. Like, okay, the whiteness can be really narcissistic. Mm-hmm. Let's be honest, you know, he's saying to you on behind closed doors like, You're saying too much, this is offensive, blah, blah, blah. And then posting on social media, she said this and I learned that. Mm-hmm. And it's so disorienting. Yes. You're like, okay, which one is actually you?
Right. But it's that projection of mm-hmm. Like who they want people to see them as. Mm-hmm. Um, but.
Patricia: [00:36:00] Ego Yeah. Informs exactly in so many ways. Yes. Sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off.
Gabi: No, no, you're absolutely right. That ego. And I think, um, if, if more people who look like me could just recognize that like there is this narcissistic tendency that we have mm-hmm.
To, you know, be allies or to be supportive. In public, but like you said, what are you doing? What's the work you're doing? Introspectively, right. Let me ask you this. Yes, yes. And I know you'll answer honestly. Yes. Like, has any real change occurred in your character and in your life and in you becoming the fullest version of who you are?
Has any of that happened without pain? No.
Patricia: No? Mm-hmm.
Gabi: See, That's gonna be the same for anyone. Yes. [00:37:00] Who chooses to change.
Patricia: Yes.
Gabi: Mm-hmm. The problem is so many of us are unwilling to go through the pain. Right. That someone with a narrative like you will unveil in someone like me. It's like Al.
Patricia: Yes. Patricia, shut up.
Yes. I love how you said that though, because it's this unveiling. It's not, if we can have that perspective and, and of, of it being an unveiling, it's not a tearing down, but it's a mm-hmm. It's a ripping off. Yes. This, this, this taking off the layers that it's a shedding. Yes. And, and, and it is painful. It hurts.
I cried many nights, you know. Mm-hmm. I'd have hard conversations with my children about why we don't see their friends anymore. Mm-hmm. You know, we. We thought that we finally found the place where, where our family could exist as our full selves, and it turned out to not be the case. Hmm. You know, we, we left [00:38:00] the city, not just because of that, but that was, you know, we were already at the point of being like, okay, I think our time here is, you know, is up.
We've been there for seven, eight years, you know, but that was, it was no longer a safe space for us, period. And it hurts and infuriates me, I'm not gonna lie. You know, that's another thing I was also told, I was so angry. Cause I'm supposed to just smile and nod when, you know, people are being murdered and the oppressors always want to dictate how the oppression respond to things.
Yeah. But the, the painful part is, is that it matters to you too because you are being impacted. Those who consider themselves white. Mm-hmm. Those who are being impacted by whiteness. You are being hurt by all this too. Yeah. Like there are generations that you have to undo within yourself that just like, there are generational trauma [00:39:00] that I am experiencing and undoing.
Mm-hmm. The same goes for you. White supremacy harms every single body. Everyone. There's no escaping it. But you can make a choice of how active or inactive you wanna be to bring solutions and to be honest with yourselves, and to make the changes within yourselves and to make those changes within your, your family unit, your, your community, wherever you are.
Mm-hmm. And instead, so many people choose, this is what I want people to see. Yeah. Rather than, this is the real work to get to a better place. Yeah. And you know, I'll tell you this because. Again, there are a million little stories I can share, but this is important. This is how deep it goes. This all happened at the beginning of the year.
It was January 13th. I'll never forget that date when I got that letter. That was a Thursday, that next Monday, that next Sunday, let me say this was a recorded church service in [00:40:00] which, uh, you could tell they're reading from a script. And, and the wife who was at the time, you know, until she fell off long before this, my best friend cuz it became too much for her to handle her, the white woman to handle the conversation.
And she, she definitely did call me, say I was so angry at one point. Um, but they, they read what sounded like a scripted, um, you know, part where they were doing a recap of the year. And they get to a point where they say, we were living in a military town, and they say, you know, we've lost members for different reasons.
Some due to moves and some due to deployments and some due to differences of, of, of, you know, political opinions. And we also learned that white supremacy is really bad. Like it was so like, oh my gosh, my gosh. Like, are you kidding me? Whiplash, right? And then that's that Monday. Do you know that this, this pastor, this leader who days before sent me this letter, Telling me that my tone was too [00:41:00] much and I was the problem showing up as my whole black self posted a quote from the letter from Birmingham jail on m l k day.
No, he did not. And said, and said that he, he too could see himself in, you know, the white moderate. And he too was listening and learning. I'm so sorry, but that's how deep it goes. Yeah. And thank you. And I do appreciate that because it was, it was, The most painful thing. Yeah. And, and it is, is whiplash. I'm like, is this for real?
Yeah. Because you, you que you question yourself when you're in this like, manipulative gaslighting Yeah. You know, scenario, you're like, what's real? Mm-hmm. Am I this person? I can't be that person. Like, how is it that the people who I trusted enough to say I, I, I want to name you as a goddaughter of my child, can, can get, can be so wrong about me.
Mm-hmm. But people like Gabby, who I've interacted with online, who we haven't had in a, in real life connection, but, you know, she sees and she's willing [00:42:00] to examine herself and, and to learn and to really learn and to really show up and to really make changes. How, how is it that, that I can be seen as so different?
Yeah. But I, I hit too close. Mm-hmm. I hit too close to things that they were unwilling to change and address. And so in many situations with people with unhealth, people who want that power, that ground for power, I need to eliminate any threat to that power or anything that's going to force me to change in a way that I simply don't want to because it still benefits them.
Mm-hmm. But again, what's heartbreaking is that really you're losing too. It doesn't benefit you. Right. Like what a small world you're living in. Mm-hmm. And what a small God you've made. Yes. To think that this is how we need to, to minimize God into this little box, to make sure we keep the power and, and, and keep things away that we think that they always are or always should be.
Mm-hmm. Rather than be so expansive [00:43:00] and, and welcoming the change and it, and it's, it hurts. There has not been a single experience I've gone through that get me to this point that has not been without that pain. Mm-hmm. But I found my people along the way. Yeah. I found more of myself along the way. And you, we can go from survival mode to thriving if we're willing to do that.
Gabi: Absolutely. So powerful, so beautiful. I. Could literally talk to you for hours.
Patricia: Well, thank you for making this space. I really do just feel, you know, I just feel that safety and I, and I think that says so much about who you are and how you show up. So thank you.
Gabi: Well, good. I'm so glad. It's definitely my goal is to create a safe space for people, and I do just want to validate like I see you and I see that.
You've had to bear the brunt of a lot of pain, like a lot of black women and black men in this country [00:44:00] because of someone.
Patricia: My Black Women Matter shirt today. Yes, yes, yes.
Gabi: You're, um, where we, white people, people who look like me have decided not. To endure the pain and so just dump it on you. And I just, my heart breaks over that.
And, um, I very much hope that we'll see more of a wave of willingness to endure pain, to become fully ourselves, which includes seeing everybody. As they fully are and you're beautiful. You're amazing.
Patricia: Oh, thank you. You too.
Gabi: Thank you for being here. We appreciate this. I'll have to have you on again because I had like 16 more.
I
Patricia: dunno. Look, we can definitely do a part two. Yes. We'll, we'll have to do now. We've made the foundation. I've done all the talking so we can get to some Oh, I love it. Questions. I love it. Next time
Gabi: you talk as much as you want. I love it. So thank you, Patricia. I would love for people to be able to connect with you.
Um, I'll put all your links and stuff in the show notes, but if you wanna share here, like what's the [00:45:00] best way to connect with you, um, that would be great.
Patricia: Sure. I would say that, uh, on my Instagram, Patricia underscore a underscore. Taylor is the best way to connect with me because they're through my link tree.
I have links to everywhere else where I exist on, on the online spaces. So Facebook, sometimes Twitter, sometimes a website that is under construction, but you know, that's where you'll find me.
Gabi: Cool. Perfect. So yes, go follow her. She's fabulous. Um, continue to learn and listen and grow and, um, just enjoy. Her lip syncing all of the things.
So, um, again, thank you. You're wonderful. I'm so glad that you were able to be here today, and I'll talk to you soon. Thank you so much. Bye bye.