In this episode of Pain to Passion Live, I'm diving deep into a heart-to-heart conversation with Rachel Havekost, a remarkable mental health advocate and writer.

Rachel's story is about resilience, transformation, and hope, and I can't wait to share it with you!

In our chat, Rachel takes us back to her early years and opens up about her struggles with an eating disorder. She shares how she didn't have many people to relate to during those challenging years, but then how things took a positive turn when she found support through group therapy and hearing others tell their stories. She shares how this experience reshaped her path to healing. As we chat, you'll learn how she found herself on a unique journey of becoming an influential mental health advocate. Rachel's storytelling prowess is remarkable, as you'll see as she breaks down stigmas around depression, eating disorders, and divorce. We dive into her personal journey of self-discovery, learn more about how she's learned to truly value herself, AND hear the coolest story about invitation to the Harvard Mental Health Summit! This episode is a testament to the transformative power of sharing personal stories and its immense impact on the mental health landscape. So, get ready to gain valuable insights and feel inspired to embrace your unique self!

More about Rachel:

Rachel is the bestselling author of "Where the River Flows," and has built an online presence devoted to de-stigmatizing mental health. She aims to facilitate a new age of wellness that is rooted in empowered education rather than profit from pain, and hopes to carve out spaces online and offline where folks feel seen, understood, and represented.

Connect with Rachel:

Website (resources, consultations, and more!) - ⁠rachelhavekost.com⁠

Instagram - ⁠@rachel_havekost⁠

TikTok - ⁠@rachelhavekost⁠

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(TRANSCRIPT) S2E23: How Storytelling Makes Us Feel Less Alone - Rachel Havekost

Note: Transcript is created by AI. Please excuse any errors.

Gabi: [00:00:00] Hello, beautiful people. Welcome back to Pain to Passion Live. I have a lovely, amazing, beautiful, awesome, creative friend here today. This is Rachel Havakos. I have been following her on Instagram. Gosh. Several years, at least now, um, I got to do an interview with you a while back and it's been a bit. So I was like, wait, I haven't had Rachel actually on my podcast.

She needs to be on my podcast. So here she is with me today. Rachel, thank you so much for being here.

Rachel: Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to talk to you and I'm just very happy to see you and get the chance to catch up witih you.

Gabi: Yes, I'm so happy to see you as well. We're both in the same state, opposite sides of the

state.

Rachel: Yes,

Gabi: so [00:01:00] usually I'm talking to people who are like East Coast people. We're in the same time zone and everything. So that's cool. But we still haven't met face to face, which is. Just not okay with me someday.

Rachel: I believe, I believe in it.

Gabi: I believe in it too. We're going to make it happen. It's totally doable, but I'm just so thrilled that you're here with me today and I can't wait to introduce my audience to you.

Anyone who doesn't know you needs to know you and follow you. You're amazing work. You're so real. You're so authentic and you're so relatable. Um, yeah. Just how you engage with people is so special, and I think that's what has been so magnetic about your content and how you create and why there are so many of us who absolutely adore you.

So, Rachel, without further ado, can you please tell us a little bit about who you are? And what you do.

Rachel: Yes. Um, thank you for that compliment. It really, it means a lot. [00:02:00] Um, I, so gosh, where do I even start? I, uh, I started writing about my mental health, uh, in 2020. I remember it was like January 1st, 2020. I was like, okay, I'm committed.

I'm going to start writing about my mental health. And the reason I started doing that was, um, you know, I've been in therapy for, it's been almost 19 years now. Um, I, I was diagnosed with an eating disorder when I was 15 and, uh, and then from there, you know, a sort of a whole sort of unfolding of my mental health.

happened where I was, I experienced depression, I experienced suicidal depression, anxiety. Um, later I discovered that some of the things that I was experiencing in my intimacy or relationships had to do with previous sexual trauma. Um, and, you know, so I spent, I spent a lot of time going to therapy and, um, but for the most part, I spent a lot of time feeling alone because when I, when I was diagnosed with my eating disorder, it was [00:03:00] 2005.

social media didn't exist. Mental health was incredibly stigmatized. I mean, the word, the, the phraseology mental health was not even in, in our daily vernacular. No one was talking about mental health. And, and so I really, I thought, you know, for about Six or seven years. I just thought that I was the only person experiencing what I was experiencing.

I didn't, there was no, there was no example of here's, here are people who struggle with eating disorders or negative thoughts, spirals, or self hatred or shame or fear or uncertainty or perfectionism or whatever it was. There weren't examples of that. And there weren't examples of that in the context of healing or getting better or recovery.

There, there was only examples of. Uh, you know, like I, I remember Googling some of my symptoms and all I could find were like pro anorexia websites, so everything was very much a reinforcer of the, the choice I was making was not, um, I don't even like to use the term [00:04:00] pathological, but that's the first thing that comes to mind, but I didn't, I didn't understand that what I was experiencing was somehow detrimental to my overall well being.

I thought that I somehow was like, I had unlocked some secret superpower. And, and so I stayed sick and I stayed isolated for a really long time, and it wasn't until I went to treatment, um, in, I think it was 2015 that I went to eating disorder treatment, um, I was in group therapy for the first time, and I remember other people, Sharing very openly about their thoughts, their behaviors, their childhood, their relationships.

And I remember thinking two things. The first thing was, how the fuck are these people so comfortable talking about their, their lives? Like I, I operated on a do not talk about yourself sort of level for a really, really long time. My parents set an example for me, which was we sweep everything under the rug.

We don't talk about feelings. We don't talk about thoughts. We just, we move forward. We move forward. And so to sit in a room with people who were just so open. And vulnerable [00:05:00] and, and seem to not experience any embarrassment or shame or like feeling like a burden for talking about their problems or their thoughts or, or like what I constituted negative things was mind blowing to me.

And then the second thing I remembered was. Thinking, oh my God, I've had every single thought that this person is saying, or, oh my God, that is, that is exactly my relationship with my mother, or, oh my God, I do those things all the time, and I used to think that they mean me bad and wrong, but I'm not the only one.

And the, the juxt like, both of those things happening together allowed me to, A, see that there might be a benefit in me talking about what I was going through and actually sharing, and receiving feedback or support or, or validation, and that B, I wasn't alone. I wasn't the only person experiencing what I was experiencing and that alone gave me the willingness and openness to lean into therapy and actually listen to my therapist and actually start to learn the tools that they were offering me because I actually, because then I [00:06:00] believed that it might actually help because if it wasn't a me problem and it was a common problem, then the solution might actually be relative relevant to me.

Totally. And so even though I'd been in therapy for years before that, I, I was, I just thought I was an unsolvable problem. I thought I was just a puzzle that could not be solved. And, uh, and so being in group therapy and learning, I wasn't alone created a lot of opportunity for me to start getting better.

And so I think, you know, as the years went on, Um, you know, I went to, I, I moved out to Spokane and, um, got my master's in mental health counseling because I thought maybe I can be a therapist and help other people, you know, who are, who are going through the same thing as me, uh, because it was so empowering and so helpful for my, for my well being and my livelihood and, um, And I quickly realized that therapy was not the right modality for me.

It was, I was still, there were still a lot that I hadn't worked through in terms of perfectionism, in terms of, um, the pressure I put on myself to [00:07:00] perform. Um, In terms of, you know, just, just an ability to manage uncertainty and manage stress, I was still, I didn't have enough skill sets yet to navigate the really, really important job of being a therapist and sitting in a room with someone who is suffering.

Um, I didn't have the skill set yet to do that. And so I have to take a step back and. this and think about like what, what makes sense for me based on what I have capacity for with my own mental health, knowing that what I care about is helping people feel less alone and de stigmatizing. And I've, I've always been an artist.

I, my undergrad was in theater. Um, so storytelling and connecting with people through art has always been something that I have enjoyed and have been connected to. And And writing has always been a way for me to process my own thoughts and my own anxiety and become self aware around some of the things that I'm going through.

So I started writing, um, about just what I was, what, about my mental health. I started writing about, [00:08:00] uh, depression, I started writing about eating disorders, I started writing about suicide and suicidal thoughts. And, and I just did it for me for, for a little while until I started to kind of get this idea that maybe, maybe what would be helpful for people would be more stories, would be more representation, the same way like when I was 15 and there was no representation of what it was like to have an eating disorder or what it was like to not want to be alive.

I had no examples of people who were struggling with it, nor did I have examples of people who were overcoming it. And so I thought maybe that's. A hole I can fill, maybe that's a gap that I can fill, is representation and telling stories. So that's why I decided to start writing in 2020, and start writing so honestly and openly about my mental health.

And, um, and that's what I've been doing for the last four years. Whether it's on social media, or on my blog, or on my Substack, um, or in my book. Um, I'm, I'm, I look for ways to be open and transparent about what I've been through, what I'm currently going [00:09:00] through, how I'm navigating it, what it, what it looks like or feels like on the other side in the hopes of helping one person feel less alone.

De stigmatizing some, some still pretty, what I think are stigmatized parts of mental illness or just being a human being in general. Um, like for example, I got divorced in the pandemic and I felt a lot of shame and stigma around that when it happened. And so that became something I started talking about more openly.

Um, and then also creating safe spaces for people to show up who don't have opportunities to go to therapy or who don't have opportunities to go to a support group and feel less alone. So that's been my mission and sort of how. You know, how everything is, has, um, evolved and it has been really wild for years.

And, uh, yeah, I mean, it's, it's been really hard, but it's also been really, really rewarding. Um, and I've, I've learned a shit ton along the way. Um, so [00:10:00] yeah, that's the spiel.

Gabi: Yeah. I love it. I mean, everything that you said. Is resonating with me so deeply, um, I think people around our age, if we had any mental issues, mental health problems, struggles as young people, it was like, that was like, we don't talk about this unless we're making jokes about someone.

And so therefore admitting that I'm really struggling with something is like not even an option on the table. Um, but on the flip side, that need for validation, like you said in 2005 was when you started therapy or when you were diagnosed with an eating disorder. Right. And then in 2015, you were with others telling their stories.

That's 10 years. 10 years is a long time to feel alone and to feel [00:11:00] different and weird. And like, there's something wrong with you. It's a really long time. And I think what's so beautiful, like it moves me almost to tears to think that you took that experience and you changed it into, I don't want anyone else to ever feel this way is so beautiful.

And, um, The sharing of stories, like you said, I too, I think stories change the world. I think people having space to openly tell their stories is what actually changes other people's lives. And you've done that so beautifully, so authentically, um, and I've watched your roller coaster. Everyone's kind of watched your roller coaster the last couple of years.

I, correct me if I'm wrong, but I've seen a couple points where you're like, okay, now I'm going to be an authority in the field and I'm going to like teach people. Um, and then you're like, wait a second, [00:12:00] no, wait. I can't do that. That's not me. That's not who I am. I'm going to be a friend. I'm going to be honest about where I'm at because everyone is in what you call the messy middle at all times.

Do any of us ever actually arrive? No. But do we pretend that we do? Yeah, we do it all the time. Um, but the way that you validate the stories of people by being so honest is exactly the experience that you received in a group. That's what so many of us have experienced with you. And I love that.

Absolutely love that. Um, as far as your openness and sharing about your divorce as well, how has been opening up about that relationship specifically, and being willing to talk about the ups and downs of what [00:13:00] that's been like, how has that impacted you, your mental health and how you communicate with the world?

Rachel: It's been interesting because I, I think initially, I, I was really private about it at first. I think it took, I think it took me about eight months for me to start opening up. Online with, you know, with people that weren't my immediate family or friends about that being something I was going through, which was odd for me because I was so accustomed to being really transparent about not only things I've gone through in the past, but things I was struggling with in the present.

And so it felt like this weird disconnect where I was working through, I was working through a lot of shock and a lot of denial. And, and I also didn't feel. It was, I think, honestly, one of the big challenges I had there was it was no longer just my story I was telling. It was Right. It included him. And so I also felt a level of pause [00:14:00] because I wanted to be really careful about how I included him in the story of our divorce, because I still loved him very much and I didn't, I didn't hate him.

I didn't want him to be a villain. I didn't want. You know, I, I didn't want to somehow turn him into somebody else by including him in the story of our divorce. And, and I think also in a lot of ways, I, I knew that as soon as I named it publicly, as soon as I said out loud, this is what I'm going through, it made, it would make it real.

And so I think there was a lot of denial that I was going through, that I had to go through, that... Um, you know, that was a part of the grieving process and so I think when I finally did name it publicly and, and spoke to like, this is something that I'm, that I'm dealing with and that I'm navigating it, it made it really real.

Mm-Hmm. . And, and I think that was important because I spent a long time in denial and I spent a lot of time bargaining and I spent a lot of time really trying. Not to accept that that was the reality. So I [00:15:00] think by naming it and by talking about it and by writing about it, I was continuing to reinforce the, the need I had, which was to accept that it was real.

And I think also it, it helped me reduce my own internalized shame and stigma around what it meant to be divorced. And I think that I, I mean, now I feel, I mean, this is one of the things that Our story, this is one of the biggest lessons I've learned is that the more I tell my story, whatever story that is, the less shame I feel about it.

And the less shame I feel about it, the more free I am to be myself. Because what ends up happening is the less shame I have, the more authentically I can show up in any relationship or dynamic. And if I'm rejected for that, then I can immediately be like, well, this is not someone I want to be around if they're going to judge me or criticize me for this experience I've had in my life versus through acceptance for someone being like, Oh, I see you.

And I know you and I'm willing. And I. And I accept you. And so I've noticed that the [00:16:00] more I tell stories about my experiences, the less shame I have about them, which only serves to enhance the relationships I have in my life. So I, I, I feel very. Uh, grateful to have a, an opportunity to share my, my divorce story because I don't feel any shame about it anymore, like at all.

Like, I was in a relationship with a person I loved for a certain amount of time until the relationship was no longer what either of us needed and we fought really hard to make it work. And unfortunately, the, the right decision for us was to no longer be in a relationship anymore. And that was really sad and devastating and difficult.

And it, and it created a lot of change and uncertainty in my life. And I'm still here. I'm still a person. I've learned a lot of things because of it and done a lot of reflection and, um, and I'm still a person and that's all, you know, like those are the facts. And so I think like by talking [00:17:00] about it, I've been able to really reduce my own shame.

I think also, um, you know, has given me permission to, to live life the way that I want to, rather than the way I think I'm supposed to. Mm hmm. And, uh, and so I think, you know, you know, like, it's been very healing for me to be able to talk about it openly. I, uh, and I know that it's something that a lot of people still stigmatize and, uh, and I think if anything it's like it's allowed me to free myself from other people's projections or ideas of what is good or bad or right or wrong because I feel comfortable with my experiences, I feel comfortable with my past and my choices and who I am and what I have to offer and if, um, if someone else has a stigma or an idea of what that means, That's that's their that's that's their opinion and that's on that's on them.

That's not that has nothing to do with me. I don't have to take that on. Um, so it's been very it's been very healing to talk about [00:18:00] publicly.

Gabi: Yeah, that's beautiful like to hear how you have so embraced yourself on such a deep level that now when you walk into situations where people are like, Oh, No, no, no, we don't like this.

You're like, okay, that's cool. Bye. Instead of trying to, uh, put yourself into that shape that they want you to be.

Rachel: Yeah. I mean, so I went on a date last week and. Um, and it came up in conversation and so I like, I told him, I told him I'd been divorced and then later on we were at dinner and he was asking me about, um, cause my ex husband and I went on this long motorcycle, it was like a 10 month motorcycle trip and that was kind of our, our relationship really sort of devolved over the course of those 10 months.

Yeah. And so he was asked, my date was asking me about that trip and about, you know, like where, where we went and what it was like. And then naturally it kind of like came up that. On that trip, I, [00:19:00] like, we ended up separating and I left the motorcycle trip while he finished. And I remember, like, when I told him, when I told my date, Yeah, so at a certain point, like, I, I left.

He laughed. He, like, scoffed and he went, You just left? And he kind of laughed. And I, and I immediately remember thinking, There's nothing funny about this. There's nothing funny about being somewhere with my, with my husband who I was planning on loving for the rest of my life and making a choice to separate.

That's not funny. And what's, and what's so interesting is in that moment, that was my first automatic thought was this is not a, this is not a laughing situation. And then the second thought I had was, wow, a year ago, if this had happened, I would have mirrored my date and laughed as well so that I could, so that I could be accepted and not rejected.

I would have assumed that his response was the right one and that I needed to adopt it if I wanted to be, if I wanted it to be loved or accepted. And it was just so [00:20:00] interesting for me to notice. How my, my, that automatic thought was so different and so changed and so true to me and what I believe. I think also like what you were saying around like, you know, 10 years is a long time to not feel like it's safe to be me or 10 years is a long time to stay, to feel isolated or alone.

And, and at the same time, you know, that's why it took about 10 years for me to get here. Now. I mean, it's taken me 10 years to get to a place where I. I'm okay with who I am. I'm comfortable with the experiences I've been through. I'm comfortable with the mistakes I've made. I've made peace with my life, and I've made peace with the fact that as I continue to live on, more things will happen in my life that I'm going to have to navigate, and I'm not going to navigate perfectly, and I'm going to have to figure it out, and I think that, like, getting here has taken a lot, and it's been grueling and there have been times where I wondered like, would I, will I ever, like, will [00:21:00] my automatic thought ever be in service of what I believe in?

Or will I always be someone who is trying to make everyone else around me happy? Or will I always be someone who's trying so hard to belong that I stop being myself in order to fit in? Will I always, always, and I would ask myself these questions a lot. And so to have that automatic thought was like, so cool.

Like, yeah. Sucks that this motherfucker is laughing about me getting divorced because up until now, this was a great date. Yeah. You know, like, I had some feelings about that and some like, wow, this is really, sucks that like this person that I maybe could like, or I'm on a date with is laughing about this thing.

Like that makes, that's still hurtful, right? Like I'm not impervious. I still, I still feel things. And, and at the same time, I was like, wow, this is really wild to see that this is, this is where we are.

Gabi: Mm hmm. Yeah, huge growth. That's super cool. Congratulations. Thank you. [00:22:00] I love it. I love it. And I hope that we can all continue to go on this journey to get to that place.

Um, did you even really know who you were ever in the past, or is that something that you've just been learning recently?

Rachel: You know, because I think, like, you know, I did a lot of, um, like, inner child work with my therapist right after I got divorced, which was really helpful, um, because I, it was a time, it was a time when I started to feel like I didn't know who I was, and I remember thinking, a lot of it was because I was, I was trying to grieve my identity as wife, my identity as his partner, my identity as coupled.

Um, and so like, I was like, who am I now that I'm not with a partner? Who am I? As a single woman, who am I as a woman at like, who is Rachel at 30? You know, when I think I was 30, no, how old was I [00:23:00] 31? When we got divorced, I just was like, all of a sudden it was like, it was a blank slate. And so we did a lot of inner child work.

Um, because what that helped me kind of do was tap into who I was as a kiddo when, you know, before I was sort of inundated with. cultural messaging around what it means to be a girl or what it means to be a woman or what it means to um, be in this, you know, society where we're supposed to succeed or perform.

So before I was sort of inundated with all this messaging about who you're supposed to be, who, who was I? Who was Rach? What did I like to do? What was my personality like? What was my demeanor? You know, how did I respond to things? And so I think in some ways like that allowed me to kind of tap into like, An inherent version of Rachel, and I also know that, you know, my adult self is a combination of my inherent who I am at my core, [00:24:00] a combination of that, and what are my beliefs?

What are my values? What do I care about? And, and those things Develop over time with knowledge and experience, right? Like, I can't really know what I believe in until I've had some life experience or until I've been exposed to life, right? And so a lot of those things have happened just by, by being alive and by having experiences.

And so I think, um, I think in some ways I've always been Rachel, like I've always, like if you had met me when I was a teenager, my personality would have reflected a lot of the same things in terms of the way that I am in social situations, or when I'm silly, the way I like to dress up and goof around, or how I treat people, or, um, my sensitivity to certain things, like all of that would still be really true, and I have More of a structure for who I am, because I now have the building blocks that keep me safe, that [00:25:00] keep me engaged, that keep me energized.

So it's things like, I know how to, I know how, I have healthy boundaries now. I know how to communicate my needs. I know how to ask for help. Um, I know, I know what my priorities are, so I know when it's okay for me to say no, and when it's okay for me to say yes. Um, I no longer feel the need to, to impress everyone or please everyone.

And so I'm able to be more relaxed in who I am in certain situations. And so I think that, like, there's more of a solidity to who I am because I have a more clear definition of, of what the structure of Rachel is.

Yeah.

Gabi: Yeah. I think you described that very well. That's really cool. Uh, and who we are is always evolving as well.

Um, what we actually like to do or things like that can always change as well. But yeah, the essence of Rachel has always been there for sure. Yeah. Okay. Before we're done, I have to ask you about Harvard. Okay. Okay. So again, here's my perception from the [00:26:00] outside. All of us over here. We're like, yeah, of course they asked her and you were like, what is happening?

So I would love to hear about this experience. Cause that was really, really cool.

Rachel: First of all, I'm still like, what is happening? Why did they ask me? Um, so in, I think it was February, I got an email. From Harvard that was like you're invited to this mental the first ever mental health creators summit at Harvard Please email us back to confirm that you'd like to participate and I was like spam Okay, sure And then a few weeks later, I got another email from them and it was like hey, we're following up We'd like you to participate in this Summit.

And I, so then I was like, okay, maybe it's real, but maybe it's just like a survey or so. I just was like, I don't know what this means. I'll just respond, respond. Yes. And then like, let it be. And then about a month later, I got a DM on Tik TOK from a therapist. And she was like, [00:27:00] Rachel, I'm so excited to do this Harvard summit with you.

Um, I can't wait to, you know, to meet you. And I was like, what is she, what? Like, and so I went and like scrambled and checked my email and like, there was an email, but it was in my, you know, like the promotions folder or whatever that was like, okay. You're, you're in this, the Harvard summit. Welcome to the, you know, the, this will be the first of several email pre to what you can expect.

And I was like, wait, what, what? It's like, and, and so I like looked at it more carefully and I. I realized that it was going to be, there was going to be a virtual summit for a few months where there would be zoom meetings hosted by Harvard for a select number. I think there were like 80 of us that they had selected mental health creators.

So people on social media that talk about mental health, whether it's therapists or advocates or whatever, and they would have different experts from Harvard, talking about different topics and research around mental health. And, and then there was going to be an in person. Two day [00:28:00] events or summit at Harvard in August and.

And so I remember, like, I attended some of the Zooms, and I wasn't really I honestly was like, I don't understand what I'm supposed to do. Am I supposed to be giving you guys information? Are you giving us information? Uh, you know, what is what's what is this for? Like, I remember just being confused, but also really stuck in this, like, There's no, there's no really good reason why I'm here.

I don't understand why I'm here. There are all, there are all these TikTokers that I recognize who have millions of followers or who are experts in, you know, ADHD or anxiety or trauma. And like, I'm just little old Rach talking about my life, you know, like I just was, I was so confused about what I was doing there.

And, and so I think that got in my way of actually really engaging in those video sessions because I didn't believe that I was It's supposed to be there. And when they, so when they reached out and they were like, okay, now we're doing this in person thing in August, you know, we'll, we're gonna fly you out and put you in a room, in a hotel room, I was like, well, I'd be, I would be stupid to say no to this.

[00:29:00] Even though I don't think I should be there, like, it would be dumb for me to say no. Like, it's an, it's a trip to Harvard to talk about mental health. Like, that's a no brainer. Right. And, um, And I remember having so much imposter syndrome about it that I was literally looking for any excuse to not be able to go because I was like, I'm going to show up and they're going to be like, Oh, you actually came like this was a pity invite.

So finally, like my mom convinced me, she was like, Rachel, you're going to go, I'm going to take Milo, like, just go and have a good time. And so. I get there and there's 13 of us and we're all like, I remember we all met in the morning at the hotel and we were like, do you know why you're here? No. Do you know why you're here?

No. Like we all were under the impression a mistake had been made. And it's like the classic Harvard story where like, there's like this story about imposter syndrome, where there's students in their first year of school at Harvard. And the professor's like, how many of you think that Um, you know, there's been a mistake on your application and you're not supposed to be here.

And like half the room raises their hand. Like they're literally already at Harvard. They're [00:30:00] enrolled in school and they're still like, I'm pretty sure there was a mistake with my application. And so like, we were all experiencing that. And so what happened, what ended up happening was like, it was the most incredible two days.

It really was. So essentially the public school of health, um, at Harvard, which is like their whole, their whole goal at that, in that school is. To get up to date research on public health, whether that's physical health, mental health, environmental health, and then disseminate that information to the public.

So it's kind of like Positive marketing, um, with the goal of people just having information, right? Like up to date information about their health so that they can make informed decisions. And they were, they started to notice in their research that people, especially adolescents are just as likely to go online and get information about their mental health.

As they are to go to a doctor and like hashtag mental health on tick tock is like one of the biggest trending hashtags and a lot of a lot of adolescents are looking for [00:31:00] information online and on social media. And so they were like, maybe this is an opportunity for us to work together so that when kiddos are looking for for support with their mental health and they find creators like us on these apps.

We actually have up to date research information to provide them and can say, Hey, here's some actual evidence based information about anxiety. And this is what we know, or, Hey, here's some things that are like, that are being researched right now at Harvard about the link between your air quality and your cognitive thoughts or your, you know, your ability to process information and, and how can we work together so that we're providing accurate information for the public who is looking for information and happens to be looking for To people like us on social media for that information.

And so I just thought it was a brilliant idea and model to enhance ethical practices on social media, specifically with mental health. And it was also incredibly validating because one of the things that they kept, a lot of these So there were Harvard professors and [00:32:00] researchers giving us presentations about different, you know, research and a lot of what all of them were saying is like, look, we're researchers.

We're really good at numbers. We're really good at data, but we're not very good at stories. And that's where you that's where you all excel and thrive is. And what stories do is connect people and inspire them. So you're literally oftentimes the bridge between someone struggling and feeling courageous enough to ask for help.

And so, and so by telling stories, there are, there's so much opportunity to inspire and encourage people to seek support. And I think that that was something that they were really emphasizing, which was like, it's obvious that we have a mental health epidemic. There is a mental health crisis that is. That is true.

It's obvious that we have research and data and information and support for people that are struggling. That is true. What is also obvious and true is that there's a huge barrier between people who are struggling and actually accessing and getting help. And a lot of that has to do with shame. A lot of that has to do with stigma.

A lot of it also has to do with [00:33:00] not having... Not having awareness or understanding of how to access support or information. And so by telling stories about our lived experience or by offering, um, simple, digestible ways to inform people about how they can get support, like, there is a bridge that can be made.

And so I just thought it was really, just a really empowering and motivating experience. And, uh, You know, it's really cool because right now they're, they're working on, you know, how can we create sort of like, um, a database of up to date research that is accessible to creators and create a filtration system to ensure that the creators would give this access to.

know how to read research, know how to share things ethically and responsibly, so that it's not just a free for all and anyone can like read these papers and then, you know, maybe misread it and it then provide even more misinformation. So, um, I just think it's a really incredible idea and model and I'm super [00:34:00] excited to see how it unfolds.

Gabi: That is so awesome. You just, like, lit up when you talked about that. That was so fun.

Rachel: I mean, mostly because I'm, my mind was fucking blown. Yeah. That Harvard cared so much about getting this information about mental health to the public that they were like, we're going to try something kind of experimental, or we're going to try something novel, or we're going to, we're going to trust that maybe, like, What's happening on social media.

Like, yes, there are so many things that happen on social media that are detrimental to our mental health, mental health, that are, that's misinformation that doesn't support well being, um, that reinforces self diagnosis. And at the same time, there are so many positive things that are happening. So how can we focus on the positive and make that bigger to maybe try and push out the negative of what's there and, and try and make it a safer place because it's not going to go anywhere.

Right. So how can we, how can we try and enhance what's good and make it safer and more ethical? And [00:35:00] um, I don't know, I just found it very encouraging and little Rachel was like, oh my gosh, look at this. Like people care about mental health and it's like, it's something that we're, that we're working really hard to help.

Gabi: Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking. I'm like, look at this full circle. Like, this is amazing. We start this, just even this little interview, we started talking about 15 year old Rachel alone, feeling stigmatized, doesn't understand all the things, even thinks she hacked into something cool with her eating disorder.

Like all the, all of that 10 years of isolation, the whole story. Now here you are literally being called on as someone to help as an expert in the field, make sure that other Rachel's don't get into that same situation. Like that is so cool. I'm so proud of you.

Rachel: Thank you. It's amazing. Thank you. I'm, [00:36:00] I'm proud of us.

I mean, I, you know, I don't exist in a vacuum. And so without support and without other people saying like, yes, I, I believe in this too. It wouldn't matter what I say. And so like, it's such a collective effort and, and I'm just, I'm grateful to all the people that have, have said, yeah, I, I want, I want this to change also.

So yeah.

Gabi: Yeah. So good. Well, thank you so much for sharing all of this beauty with us today. Um, absolutely adore you think you're spectacular and so grateful for your presence in this world. How can listeners connect with you? What's the best way for them to connect with you?

Rachel: Um, so you'll find everything on my website, which is just rachelhavacost.

com. From there you can find my Instagram, my TikTok, my Substack, where I do weekly newsletters. Um, and then on my website you'll also be able to find links to my memoir, my guided journals, and I have several [00:37:00] workshops, um, as well. So that's probably like the best hub to find all of the resources.

Gabi: Well, well, everything will be linked in the show notes.

So for anyone who's looking for more info or to go read your book, which is extraordinary. I read it in one day sitting by a lake in, where was I? Sandpoint, Idaho. Yeah, it's very, very good. And just one of those books that will open your heart up. in a way that you need for healing. So well done on so many things, Rachel.

And for the listeners, thank you for being here. And I hope you will connect with Rachel on Instagram. Go check out her website, her Tik TOK, all the places because she's a great, and you will be so encouraged and you won't feel alone. Thank you, my friend. I'll talk to you soon. Thank you. Bye.