In this episode, I had the pleasure of speaking with the incredible Michelle Hsu, who truly embodies the transformation from pain to passion.

Michelle is an abundance mindset coach, motivational speaker, mother of two, and a strong mental health advocate. She opened up about her personal journey, which has led her to a deep commitment to child and youth advocacy.

Michelle shared how her challenging childhood, marked by difficult family dynamics and abusive experiences, ignited her passion for helping others navigate their own struggles. Her academic background in psychology, with a specialization in developmental and cognitive psychology, reinforced her dedication to understanding the human mind and the potential we all possess. Michelle's story is a powerful reminder that we can break free from the chains of our past and create a brighter future for ourselves.

We delved into her transformation, the moment when she realized she needed to take control of her own life and well-being. Michelle's awakening came when she couldn't ignore the weight of her own excuses and the realization that she had been living to please others for far too long. Her journey toward self-discovery and empowerment serves as a beacon of hope for anyone feeling stuck or unfulfilled. Michelle's message is clear: you don't have to be fearless or ready to make a change, but you do need to be fed up with the way things are. She encourages us all to take those first steps, even if it means moving forward with fear.

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(TRANSCRIPT) S2E21: Waking up to Your Own Life - Michelle Hsu

Note: Transcript is created by AI. Please excuse any errors.

Gabi: [00:00:00] Hello my friends. Welcome back to Pain to Passion Live. It has been a hot minute since I've had a guest on the show 'cause life has been a bit topsy-turvy, but I am so thrilled to have a guest back here on the show. This is a beautiful human that I have had the privilege of meeting on Instagram.

Because, you know, Instagram has turned into this amazing place to meet amazing people. So I'm very grateful today to have Michelle Sue here. Thank you, Michelle, for being here with us today.

Michelle: Hi, Gabi. Thank you for having me.

Gabi: So I've been really excited to talk to Michelle. I was just telling her before we got on the call that she really embodies pain to passion.

And I've seen that in her from day one of when I started following her on Instagram. So I'm so [00:01:00] grateful that she agreed to be on the show and share with us. Um, Michelle, I don't usually Read bios, because I love to hear what people say about themselves. It tends to be a bit more personal and interesting, um, when you get to talk about you.

So if you could tell us who you are, where you are and what you do, that would be awesome.

Michelle: I love that. Thank you. Well, I am Michelle and I am an abundance mindset coach, as well as a motivational speaker, a mother of two young children, and I would say definitely a mental health advocate. Um, I'm very, have always been very passionate about child and youth advocacy.

Uh, just because of my own past life experiences. So, in [00:02:00] school and university, which feels like a lifetime ago. I studied, uh, psychology at the University of Manitoba and chose to specialize in both developmental psychology and cognitive psychology. Uh, the developmental side was, um. due to my interest in, you know, child development, child psychology, and that stems from my own upbringing and experiences.

And cognitive psychology was my interest in motivation and How our brains work when we speak to them a certain way and what our brains are capable of. That was fascinating to me because I feel like we often underestimate [00:03:00] what we're capable of, how flexible our brains are, how adaptable they are. And.

Kind of just go through life on autopilot, if you know what I mean. Mm-hmm. On survival mode, which in my opinion is not sustainable and it's not how we're meant to live. So nowadays you can find me shouting from a variety of rooftops, telling people, you know, you don't have to be stuck forever. You don't have to feel.

Like you are always taking one day at a time. I know that that's great advice to give people who are struggling, but sometimes when people have been in the trenches for what feels like forever, they're tired of hearing one day at a time. Because [00:04:00] it's not fun to be always. taking one day at a time. So I, my goal has been to support people and empower people to kind of step out of survival mode and figure out a more sustainable way to fulfill their highest potential.

A lot of us have that feeling like I'm meant for more, but I don't know what this is, you know, and I love when people reach that pivotal moment, because that's where the magic happens. As someone that has lived many lifetimes, I feel like that is a summary of who I am today is just help people, um, [00:05:00] to use my own experiences and hopefully guide others out of the darkness.

Gabi: So just yes, girl, you are speaking my language 100%. I absolutely love this. I also completely agree that there's that magical moment when you realize, wait a minute, maybe I don't have to live like this. And being willing to look for solutions so that even if you are in a season that's difficult, you can figure out a way to not be in survival mode anymore.

And you are beautiful and brilliant at expressing this in your content and in your work. Um, I would love to hear, because you mentioned several times from your experience, um, a lot of this is coming from your experience and your share, [00:06:00] you share from your experience, um, I would love to hear a moment when you were in survival mode.

Like majorly in survival mode and how that experience affected what you chose and decided to do now as the person you are now.

Michelle: Wow, that is a loaded question. It is, I know. Uh, to pinpoint one moment where I was in survival mode, there are more moments of survival mode than not, to be honest. Yeah. But, um, I would say.

My passion in child abuse prevention and intervention stems from my own childhood, where I was raised in a family of 4 children, uh, by very traditional, uh, I would say, uh, East Asian parents, [00:07:00] and I'm first generation Canadian, Taiwanese Canadian. So, uh, it was a busy household, and my mother was Sort of, I think, pressured by society and, you know, other people's standards and expectations to get married and have children.

And it wasn't until later on in life, uh, after my parents had already divorced that I realized I don't think she wanted to be married to my father or married at all. I don't think she wanted to have kids. Um, yeah. I don't know that that would have been an option, you know, 40 years ago for an East Asian woman living overseas.

So, all the women her age at the time were expected to start dating, you know, blind, [00:08:00] you meet, uh. Men that have a nice job and a good paycheck or whatever, and pick someone to marry, you know, you don't date for two or three or more years. So growing up, my mother was very unhappy. And definitely, I think it would be safe to say that she had.

Some mental health struggles of her own, uh, such as anxiety, which led to a lot of anger and, uh, physical violence directed particularly towards me because I was at the age, not as young as my younger brother and not. As old as my teenage sisters who were, you know, going to high school, so I was on the receiving end of a lot of her, [00:09:00] I guess, negative coping mechanisms, um, when she would be upset or frustrated if I was around, which was often, you know, at the age of 567 to 12.

I was always around. Um, she would physically. Discipline me by either, you know, hurting me or sometimes she didn't know what to do with me. So she would just, you know, take me to the basement and lock the door and turn the lights off. Wow. And now we know that to tell a child, I'll turn the lights back on when you stop crying is actually not logical or helpful.

So I had a lot of experiences like that, where I remember falling asleep on the basement floor and [00:10:00] how cold it was. I could still feel it. And just. Wondering, just being so curious what was going on in my mother's mind, and from there, I've always been intrigued by the human mind, how it works, what makes one person different than another.

I wasn't always understanding or forgiving, 12. I think my father realized what was happening, um, whereas he didn't really know before. Just a lot of, a lot of things that were hidden from him, uh, such as the harm that I had been experiencing. And there were just a lot of red flags that, you know, schools.

Noticed for example, a bruise or a bump, and then they would call and ask. And then my mom would say, you know, I [00:11:00] fell and whatever. And then this would brush it off. Just a lot of signs were ignored, which is why I feel it's so important now that every child should have at least one person who they feel safe with, who they.

Who are paying attention to them and who will notice these things because there were so many different times and people in my life that I can pinpoint that could have, could have helped me, um, instead of having to wait till I was 12 and my parents got divorced. My dad got custody of. My brother and I, while my two sisters went to university, and that was, it was difficult because [00:12:00] Just because the person that is hurting you can no longer hurt you.

There's, there is relief, but there's also grief because you're losing your mother and that's complicated. And it may not make sense because, you know, growing up, I may have had several incidents where I thought I hated her, but I had to overcome. I think the grief of. The idea of having a mother, not necessarily that mother.

So on and off since then, I've been, uh, in contact with her and kind of also estranged. Um, since 2018, just to protect my own family and my mental health. But that. Is what contributed to my passion for child and [00:13:00] youth advocacy, and it's also a huge reason why I grew into an adult that was a people pleaser.

Because I spent my whole childhood observing people's moods. Is this safe? Is this, is she going to be angry? Am I going to get in trouble? Uh, what do I do or say now that will be the safest option for me? So I kind of entered adulthood with... That hoping, I would say defense mechanism or survival mechanism and wasn't aware of it, which then led me to entering a marriage, in my opinion, way too young, but it just felt so good to be loved and it felt [00:14:00] like he was so The first person to, to choose me, not by blood, like my grandmother, who was a saint.

Um, but it felt like he chose me and he showed me unconditional love and I wanted to hold on to that. So we got married quite young and our firstborn came three to four years earlier than planned. So I was a young mom too, um, I think I was only

25 when, or 24 when he was born and I didn't know yet who I was. Yeah. And. I don't know that it is advisable to enter a marriage when you don't know who you are, [00:15:00] what you want, what you're looking for, where you're headed, just because marriage in itself is hard enough. But when you start so early, you have all these years to go where you hopefully grow in the same direction, which is.

A lot to ask for for two people to grow in the same direction from, you know, if we started dating when I was 19, 19 to 70, 80, maybe even longer. That's a long time. So nowadays I definitely recommend my clients. To take your time, um, if you've already found someone that you think is your person, that's great.

There's no rush to get married. Society [00:16:00] doesn't know you need. There aren't all these numbers. Specific ages where you're supposed to do certain things, get married by 25, have a baby by 30. That's, it doesn't work that way. Everybody is different. We are all learning and growing and healing at different paces.

And I think that we should all be more patient with ourselves. Yeah. Also more gentle with ourselves. Um. I was too young and eager to please, I was so excited to have this family that of his that for the first time in my life that felt like a complete family that I would get to be a part of. So I very eagerly assimilated and [00:17:00] became the kind of woman that I thought this.

Very conservative and traditional, uh, Mennonite family would want to see in a daughter in law or, you know, granddaughter in law, which it doesn't take very long for you to quickly lose yourself. And people don't realize how easily this happens. It sneaks up on us, and it happened to me for 13 years, 8 of which I devoted.

100 percent of my time and energy into motherhood, where I completely gave up all my academic pursuits, my career dreams and goals. And a [00:18:00] hundred percent of my time, energy, time and energy was spent at home with my children. Yeah. I don't regret it, but there was absolutely a balance I could have sought, but I didn't know it was an option.

Totally. One day, a friend asked me, you know, what, when you visit, what would you like to do? And I said, you know, whatever, whatever you want to do. And she said, well, what are your hobbies? And I froze, because not only did I not have free time, I also didn't think that I deserved free time. Yeah. I thought, you know, a good mother doesn't spend time away from her kids, right?

And a good wife doesn't ask her husband for anything, ever, right? Wrong. That was very wrong. [00:19:00] But it was a belief that I had created in my own mind. And... Sometimes we do that to ourselves. We put these chains on ourselves with limiting beliefs that trap us in a prison of pain, and we don't know how we got there.

But one day I, soon after this conversation, I heard a quote by Jim Carrey, which I'm sure you've heard of too.

I think he said, it was a video of him saying it, it popped up on my feed. [00:20:00] Depression. It was something along the lines of depression is. Your body saying, F you, I don't want to play this character anymore. Mm hmm. Hold on. I have to find it so that I'm not, um, paraphrasing.

Gabi: Yeah. I'd love to hear it.

Michelle: Okay. It says depression is your body saying F you, I don't want to be this character anymore.

I don't want to hold up this avatar that you've created in a world that's too much for me. It needs deep. Rest. Depressed. It needs deep rest from the character you've been trying to play. Wow. And as someone who previously studied psychology and was, have always been in the mental health community, sharing resources and [00:21:00] posts on it, on social media, I don't know why that was the thing.

That did something to me, but that video, I froze and I listened to it again and

I just became undone. I, I fell apart right there on the ground in my bedroom and he was right. I had been trying to play a character to please my husband and his family, or my children, or whoever, but never myself. Mm hmm. I didn't do anything for myself, and I had the false belief that that was selfish, to choose yourself.[00:22:00]

But is it selfish if... If you, if it's not sustainable to live this way, is it selfish to take care of yourself so that you can better love those around you? Is it selfish to take care of your mental health so that you're not miserable? Because I looked in the mirror and I was unrecognizable, not only physically, but also mentally.

Wow. Like, I looked at my reflection in the mirror. And the body I saw was extremely un unwell, and the eyes I saw were lost and empty, soulless. And I think from there is when I realized [00:23:00] that it was time for me to stop lying to myself about what I really desired, how I really felt, who I really was. Thanks.

and it was incredibly liberating as well as terrifying. Uh, I don't know if you've ever experienced anything quite like it, Gabi, but sometimes when those Unexpected awakenings, so to speak, happen. It was not planned. It wasn't necessarily a decision that we make it happens. And I remember thinking, what the heck is going on?

You know, I was comfortable being miserable for 13, 14 years. Can we maybe go back to that? Because this is [00:24:00] scary. Totally. It's scary to want different things. It's scary to be sick of your own excuses. It's scary to realize that we have responsibility and we play a role in our own suffering. It's scary to hear a voice in your head that says, you can change this.

Instead of decades of this is just how things are. Yeah. Just keep on sleepwalking through life. Isn't that fascinating? How, whether it's an awakening or transformation or epiphany, whatever you want to call it, feels more scary. [00:25:00] Those positive growth moments feel so much scarier than being completely miserable in our comfort zones.

Mm hmm. But our brains have these outdated survival mechanisms and. Defense mechanisms that were created a very, very long time ago and. As our bodies or as our brains have evolved and our intelligence and society has evolved, our biology hasn't changed that much. And very often, our biology gets in the way of our growth.

So a lot of my clients come to me with. Fear. So many [00:26:00] fears of what do I do? How do I do this? I can't do this. Just so many doubts and I often have to remind them that these beliefs and voices that we have picked up along the way on this journey started at birth. It's like everybody's opinion and everything that's ever been done to you and said to you becomes an accessory that you put on like a necklace or earrings or a scarf or a hat and, and, and you continue to travel with them until you realize that they are other people's and not yours.

So good. So it's our job to decide if you [00:27:00] want to keep carrying other people's.

You are feeling so sad and so scared and so alone and so stuck, or are you ready to start shedding these parts of you that you picked up along the way that are not yours to carry?

The reason why I do this work now is because I had the exact same experience myself. I had to make that decision. Will I stay in this place, [00:28:00] dark, lonely, terrified? Or will I try to figure out what's underneath all of this? Hmm. And... If whoever's listening to this didn't catch it the first five, 10 times I mentioned it, I was terrified and I have to emphasize that doing it scared

sometimes is the only option that we have. You can do it scared and that's okay. It's not that you have to be ready or brave or courageous or strong. You don't always have to be strong and brave. You don't always have to be ready. You just have to be sick of feeling sick and tired of [00:29:00] your situation. Yeah.

When you're done, you're done with this. I don't want to live like this anymore. I don't want to feel like this anymore. That's when you, that's when you're ready. You get to decide when you're ready and more often than not, my clients do it scared. I'm not going to sugarcoat it and say, like, I will help you be ready and just feel so brave.

And, you know, do this flawlessly. No, the truth is they do it scared just like I did. And then a fascinating thing happens. We befriend our fears. And it starts off, originally, our fears are these big, scary things that we don't want to talk about or think about. Not to [00:30:00] mention even discuss with other people, like just walk it out of my mind, right?

Then I don't have to face it. But now for me and the people that I work with, we've reached a point where it's kind of exciting to do something scary because we have learned through. The positive loop we've reinforced in our own minds after doing it over and over and over again, you prove to yourself, Hey, I did that scary thing and it ended well, Hey, I did that other really terrifying thing and the results were pretty awesome.

And as you practice this, your brain will remember. Those experiences and we are building new synapses and through the power of [00:31:00] neuroplasticity, we eventually will believe that we can do hard things. Yes. Even if we don't start off feeling that way, even if it takes a while, the only time that this does not.

This is not how it ends. Positively is when we don't try because we can be masters at talking ourselves out of doing hard things or scary things. I'm sure you can relate to this part.

Gabi: That was like a keynote. That was

amazing.

Take notes on yourself and save this for your next speech.

Michelle: Oh my gosh, I just got into, you inspired me.

Gabi: Aww. Well, I'm, I just like, my mind is racing in all the [00:32:00] best ways. Everything that you've said has been so beautiful and I absolutely agree. Befriending our fears is one of the most powerful, liberating things that we can do for ourselves.

But, first, I just want to say to you, like, Little Michelle was awesome. She was a really cool little girl. And you've probably explored that, but I can just tell, like you're saying, I'm laying there on the basement floor and it's cold, and I'm wondering what's going on inside of my mother's brain. That is really, really cool.

That little girl was already a fighter, and already... Like prepared to change lives and I hate that that happened to you. It wasn't [00:33:00] okay. It'll never be okay. But to see who you have become is incredible. And I think. What's important to point out to people who maybe haven't studied this out very much like you have, um, is that experience and all of the surrounding experiences that you had mapped your brain, like those became the pathways in your brain.

So it's no surprise at all that you felt powerless to change your circumstances as an adult because you learned very young that you're locked in the basement. If you say something about it or you do something about it, you'll get in more trouble. You can't unlock the door. You're powerless. But you stayed safe by staying quiet and just letting it pass.

So when you do that as an adult, you're just [00:34:00] following the neural pathways that you've been following your whole life. But what you did... was so beautiful was you realized, wait a minute, I'm not a little girl stuck in the basement anymore. I am a grown woman with autonomy. What am I going to do with that?

How will I choose to use this autonomy? And that's when you had to make the scary choice to jump from the grooved, well worn pathway that you've been walking all these years and jump onto something completely different and really embody this adult version of yourself. And you've done it. Like, kudos to you.

Michelle: It's been a wild ride. I believe you. And I highly recommend that, uh, whoever is listening, we all just work [00:35:00] on it as soon as possible, as early as possible. I would have loved to have experienced this growth in my early 20s, as opposed to my 30s. Um, I don't regret any of the choices. Or phases in my life.

However, I do feel like I kind of missed out on some years where I was just on autopilot. And like you said, uh, my familiar area was You don't talk back to people in authority or elders. You don't ask for what you want because you'll get in trouble. Don't be noisy because you'll get in trouble. You know, but like, who am I going to get in trouble with?

Like you said, my brain was just wired that way and for so long I continued to live as little Michelle who was worried about getting in trouble and wanting to stay as silent [00:36:00] and invisible as possible until one day I realized I have this life. And I'm not living it. Mm. And I think that's a, something that a lot of people need to confront, because you can continue to stay in your familiar hell, or you can realize that time is ticking, life is short, and...

Perhaps now is the time for you to figure out how to come home to yourself and who you are. Because so many of my clients think that their miserable selves are who they are and that it be farther from the truth. It's just that all of their past traumas, life [00:37:00] experiences, their, you know, betrayals and hurts, that is who they have become.

When I say come home to yourself, I mean, who are you meant to be? Yeah. What is your purpose of existing in this world? Why are you here? And what are you going to do with your life? What do you want to be remembered by at your funeral or after? What will people say about you? Because I don't want to be that quiet, invisible little girl for the rest of my life anymore.

Gabi: No, super powerful. I'm sure a lot of listeners can relate. I would just piggyback off of what you're saying and encourage anyone out there who may relate to your [00:38:00] history at all, or, um, have a history of being silenced or having to be hyper aware of everyone's moods when you were a child. If that was you, that was not your fault.

However, It does mean you probably have some people pleasing tendencies that are holding you back and having that realization. It's not a bad thing. It's a powerful thing because then you realize you do have power. Right. And when you wake up to the power that you actually do have over your own life, it's a lot of responsibility, but it's a lot of freedom as well.

And I mean, it's so clear in how you're talking and for anyone who sees the video, like it's clear all over your face, just the freedom and that you fought for it and it's been [00:39:00] worth it. And that's the big thing is like, it's a fight. It's a work. It is worth it. And there's a point where you do get where there's like, going back is no longer an option.

Michelle: No. Right. But like you said, it's hard work and it's going to take time and consistency and patience. But at the same time, no one can force you to be ready to do the work. You have to choose to do the work. Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely. Thank you. Realize that, like you said, this isn't your fault, how you've gotten here, isn't your fault, but where you go from here is up to you.

Yeah. And I just endlessly remind people that I wouldn't wish that on [00:40:00] my worst enemy, how I used to be, not knowing what does my voice sound like? What is my personality? Like to ask yourself that, what do I like? You know, I didn't even know these basic things about myself because my whole life was about pleasing other people, proving my worth to other people and endlessly betraying and abandoning myself.

Yeah. So I always tell people I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy. And I promise you that staying in the darkness by yourself where you're comfortable in the familiar is. It's way scarier than choosing to come home to yourself and step into your power. .

Gabi: Yeah, [00:41:00] absolutely. So good, so powerful. I'm so thankful for you and for all that you have shared with us today.

It's been absolutely an honor to have you here. Um, I could talk to you for a long time. same.

Michelle: Thank you for the safe space for me to just word vomit like this doesn't happen a lot where I just talk, but you are so. Welcoming and warm and you make me feel so safe that I just, yeah, it felt very comfortable sharing.

So thank you for having me, Gabi.

Gabi: Thank you for saying that. It's literally the best compliment anyone could give me is that they feel safe. Um, that's like my goal in life is to create safe spaces for people. So thank you very much. I know people are going to want to connect with you. After [00:42:00] hearing this, so what's the best way to connect with you?

I'll be sure to put everything in the show notes so that they can click on the links and connect with you. But what's the best ways to do that?

Michelle: Well, you can find me on Instagram. My handle is embodied with Michelle and my website is www. embodiedmastery. ca.

Gabi: Amazing. So go check out the show notes guys.

Connect with her, follow her on Instagram. Um, she's definitely someone who's worth watching and connecting with. Thank you again, Michelle. I'm sure we will talk again soon. I'm so grateful that we have connected and it's just the beginning of a wonderful friendship.

Michelle: Thank you for having me, Gabi.