I am so honored to be sharing this conversation I had with the amazing Dr. Alison Cook!

Dr. Alison is someone I have been following on Instagram for a while now, and she hosts one of my favorite podcasts - The Best of You - and has written an incredible book by the same name. Her content is incredible and I am so inspired and encouraged by her on a regular basis. We had such a wonderful conversation about what it means to really start getting to know yourself, learning to trust yourself and the way God has designed you, and the difference between selfishness, selflessness, and selfhood. We also chatted about gently moving toward healthy friendships and best practices for doing that in a way that honors your heart, your experiences, and your needs. You guys are going to get sooo much from this interview!! Enjoy every minute!

More about Dr. Alison:

Dr. Alison Cook is a psychologist and the author of two books, including her new book, The Best of You (Thomas Nelson, 2022) and Boundaries for Your Soul (Thomas Nelson, 2018). For 20 years, Alison has helped women, ministry leaders, couples, and families learn how to heal painful emotions, develop confidence from the inside out, forge healthy relationships, and fully live out their God-given potential.

Connect with Dr. Alison:

Instagram - @dralisoncook

Facebook - facebook.com/dralisoncook

Website - dralisoncook.com

Book link on Amazon - The Best of You

(TRANSCRIPT) Episode 5: Do I Really Know Myself? - Dr. Alison Cook

Alison Cook YouTube Video

Gabi: Hello friends. Welcome back to Pain to Passion Live. I am thrilled, beyond thrilled today because I have the amazing Dr. Alison Cook here with me. Thank you for being here with me.

Dr. Alison: Thanks so much for having me, Gabi.

Gabi: Absolutely. I'm just honored and so excited to talk to you. It's really fun like seeing you face to face and hearing your voice in real time.

Cuz I listen to your voice all the time on your podcast, and so I feel like I know you, but now it's like we're real friends in real life. But I wanted to introduce anybody who does not know you. I wanted to read your bio really quickly, but then I'll have you also share whatever you wanna share about who you are.

Anything unique and special that maybe isn't in the bio. But here is your bio.

Dr. Allison Cook is a psychologist and the author of two books, including her new book, The Best of You, and Boundaries for Your Soul. For 20 years, Alison has helped women ministry leaders, couples and families learn how to heal painful emotions, develop confidence from the inside out, forge healthy relationships, and fully live out their God given purpose.

That's a bomb bio. I absolutely love it. But go ahead and flesh that out for us a little bit. Like who are you, what should we know about you?  

Dr. Alison: Yeah I, um, that, that, that's kind of the, the work side. I started out, um, kind of getting a master's degree in counseling. I was always drawn, loved God, you know, kind of my stories.

I loved God. I, I grew up in a Christian home, knew a lot about God, knew a lot about the Bible and exactly zero about myself. And so kind of, but was fascinated by people always very, very keen observer of other people could pick out kind of very early on, kind of nuances of other people and had high empathy for other people.

And so again, all of that kind of created a gift, but also, um, so the gift was, I knew how to kind of do this thing with counseling, showing up for others, being there for others, but the downside of that was I didn't have a relationship with myself. I didn't know how to stay connected to myself. And so I continued kind of on into doctoral work and was very interested in this idea of bringing together faith in psychology.

How, how knowing God is, Kind of goes hand in hand with knowing the soul, knowing the self. And somehow in there kind of stumbled across a couple of approaches that really got me into this, you know, thinking about Jesus’ command, love God, love others as yourself. Kind of learning how to unpack my own self in the middle of all of that.

And so through my own journey of kind of realizing, oh my gosh, like this  learning how to have a relationship with yourself thing is actually like, not something we're taught. That's kind of been where I've focused my work, both of my books, my podcast kind of on this, of the three relationships, God, self, and others.

More on this, how do you get to know yourself and honor yourself and steward yourself, and heal yourself, and grow yourself, because that really is how you develop healthy relationships with others.

Gabi: Wow. Like I love that so much. I think it's true, and I'm sure a lot of women that you talk to can relate to your story of like, I learned how to relate to other people, and I never heard the term, like I'm supposed to have a relationship with myself.  

Dr. Alison: Yeah. We’re taught that. Yeah.  

Gabi: That’s mind blowing for so many of us. Even, and maybe even  especially, in the Christian world. Which I know you mentioned in your book, which I'd hold up your book, but it's on my Kindle. .

Dr. Alison: Here's the book. Yeah, I've got it right here.

Gabi: Oh, wonderful. There we go. Yeah, it's right there. There it is. The best of you. Yeah. Um, it's phenomenal. Absolutely phenomenal. But I know in the beginning of the book you kind of opened with that idea of a lot of us were raised in this way to. Basically ignore the fact that we are supposed to have a relationship with ourselves.

So I'd love to hear more of like, what was that aha moment? What was it that kind of, I guess, brought you to your senses? That you're supposed to build a healthy relationship with yourself with all that affects everything else.

Dr. Alison: Yeah, it was a very vivid moment actually, and it kind of gets at that question I ask in chapter one is, what do you want?  Or ask the, confronting the question, what do I want? Which feels like a selfish question unless you're someone who's never asked yourself that question. Right? And so for me, it was in my early thirties and I was almost finished with my doctoral program and I'd been working with people being a therapist.

Most of my friends had gone in a, you know, that movie? A movie that came out? Some people will remember called 27 Dresses where she's like, in 27 weddings. It was, that was me. You know, I was like in about 12 weddings, you know, And not looking at, not never once pausing to go, What does this mean for me? What, what? And all of a sudden, literally woke up one morning was like, I'm by myself.

I work all the time. I'm exhausted and burned out and I don't even know what that means. And here I was, you know, a therapist, you know what I mean? Like I was studying this stuff, but I wasn't applying it to myself and I thought I was being a good Christian. I thought, Well, if you're hurting, you should go help someone else.

But sometimes when you're hurting, you need to pause and look into yourself. And so that's what I had to do. I really had to kind of take a couple of years away, um, from my doctoral program and really learn what does it mean to bring myself, you know, and, and not just kind of this, I need to go take a bubble bath kind of self care.

Not that there's anything wrong with that. It was the deeper work of who am I, what do I want, what do I like, what do I need To be healthy. I just had no idea. I had no idea. And it took me a while to kind of go down that road and then, um, kind of reintegrate all of it. Cause I still wanna help others. I still, you know, love God.

And also now I've learned how to bring that, Oh, what do you know? What do I need? So it really was a, a moment in time that that just descended on me in the form of incredible burnout and incredible loneliness. Um, incredible anxiety that just I hadn't known how to take care of myself or consider my own needs.

Gabi: Wow, it's so poignant. And again, I think, yeah, probably a lot of people can really relate with that. And it's one thing to say, you know, you started asking yourself, What do I want? But there was a process to that. Like a real process even be able to figure that out. What kind of did that look like?

Cuz it, I'm sure it took a lot of deconstructing of who you were and your identity and all these things. Kind of practically. I'm sure it was messy, but what did it look like?

Dr. Alison: Yeah. I feel for my friends during that time, cause all of a sudden, you know, not, it wasn't all of a sudden, but I, you know, it showed up kind of messy right at first. And I think about people who are married. I wasn't married at the time and I think when you're married it's even harder, right? Cuz you're suddenly needing to show up in a different way. And it's really hard in a marriage, you know, really. And, and a lot of people don't have the language to say, Listen, you don't even know, you know, It's like, I'm going through something, I've gotta change and grow.

Can you stay with me till we figure out who we are on the other side? People don't have that language, Right? I was single, so that was helpful. But even in some of my friendships, you know, you, there's a little trial and error in, in learning how to figure it out. And sometimes you show up angry because you're like, You know, I talked about this the other day about how like I would get angry with people for asking things of me until I had to realize they don't know.

Like it's my job to say I can't do that. I don't have the capacity for that right now, actually. Or, or like, I'd start to notice, man, I know everything that's going on in everybody else's life. I'm praying for everybody else. Why isn't anybody asking me what I need? Well, I could get angry about that or resentful about that, or, I could reach out and say, Hey, and that is vulnerable, and say, Hey, so I'm actually struggling with this. And you know, you find out your, some of your friends are like, Oh my gosh, thank you for telling me. How can I walk with you? And some people don't care. And then you discern, you're like, Oh, well golly, good to know. But, but taking those steps of vulnerability to let people in to my own experience.

Gabi: Absolutely. And I'm sure vulnerability, even though you were a therapist already was a new feeling for you personally.

Dr. Alison: Well, and even as a therapist, we're not, we're trained to focus on other people, so I had it right. You know, from every angle from my church training, from, you know, and then as a therapist, it's like I was, I learned how to be a non-anxious present for other people.

All the more reason I needed to have people who I could let in. But it was a process. It took a couple of years, to be honest, to just learn. Um, and then I tell the story in The Best of You where when I, toward the end of that, I met my now husband and even then I had some of the skills. But even then, you know, he said to me, I, I don't, I don't know who you are,

YCan you let me in a little more? And, and, you know, that was like, okay, round two. Here we go.

Gabi: So, Oh my goodness. Yeah. I loved reading that story. And I was like, that's a good guy too. To be that insightful. To be like, I think there's something more here. Those are the kinds of people you need in your life.

Dr. Alison: And it doesn't always feel like it, Right? Cause at the time it, it was like, wait, you know, cuz you know, essentially he was saying it's not gonna be good for, I don't wanna be with someone only focused on me, which is healthy. That's what you want. Mm-hmm. But it's like, that's the only way I knew. So it was confusing.

I was like, I, I don't know how to be any other way, you know? It's, you're, we're these, this way we're conditioned is, it's hard to change. Change takes time.

Gabi: It is, absolutely. I mean, I've definitely been in the throes of that process myself. I think a lot of our listeners probably are in that process or are coming to terms with the fact that they don't know themselves.

I know something that I've wrestled with as I've kind of deconstructed some of these things is that feeling. It feels like guilt.

Dr. Alison: Yeah. Like to start saying no.

Gabi: Yes. Or to start setting your boundaries or start stating your needs. Do you have any suggestions of like, how do you deal with that pseudo guilt that's not really guilt and move through that in a way?

Dr. Alison: Yeah. Oh, you're so wise to put your finger on that. And it's so true. And I, I often say to people often, guilt sometimes is an indicator we've done something wrong. Often, especially if you're someone who's been conditioned to please other people, often it's a sign you've done something right. You've done something uncomfortable. Right? And cuz guilt is not a direct line from God. Guilt is an emotion. Right? It's a feeling and it can get knocked outta whack. We can feel guilty when we've actually done something really brave. So first of all, it's just to name that, to be aware that if you feel guilt, it does not necessarily mean you've done something wrong.

And I'll tell people, I'll say, ask yourself. Did I do something wrong? Did I yell at somebody? Did I accuse, You know, was I you know, mean towards somebody? Was I cruel? Or did I simply maybe say, set a limit that disappointed somebody, you know? And so kind of trying to filter through the facts. What are the facts of this situation?

Really asking yourself, getting curious about the guilt. Am I feeling guilty cuz I actually did something wrong or is it just uncomfortable because it's new for me? Um, and then there are lots of ways when you're first, I call it exercising your “no” muscle, exercising your, you know, I talk to people about, start with low hanging fruit, you know, um, practice with safe people who aren't gonna guilt trip you, manipulate you, you know, practice with people where you're like, I really don't wanna go to that movie. And they're like, Okay. But for you, it's like, oh, it's so hard for me to say that cuz I know you really do. Practice in that way with a safe person, you know? And, and then you're building up that muscle a little bit.

Gabi: Yes, absolutely. I, I just love that you just said guilt is a feeling. Yeah. Like it's not actually… Conviction and guilt are so different. Right?

Dr. Alison: Ver different. A hundred percent.

Gabi: I think we just put them together, We mashed them together in the same category. But, um, yeah, doing that with safe people, people, you know are safe, taking it slow.

Um, I loved all of that, so thank you for sharing that. It kind of takes me into something that you've talked about on your podcast. You talk about it in the book. I have been sharing this with so many of my friends, is these differences between selfishness, selflessness, and selfhood. Can you walk us through that a little bit?

Cuz I think it's so powerful.

Dr. Alison: Yeah. So when I start talking to women in particular about this idea of getting to the root of what they need and want, it feels selfish, you know, to think about what about what I want, what about what I need feels selfish. And so what I say when I get asked that question is there's the difference between selfishness, which is it's all about what I need or want. It's only about what I need or want. That's not what we're after. That's that is selfish. Right? It's my way or the highway because I want it. This is what I'm doing. You know, we're in relationships to people, right? That's not the way it works. But on the other hand, the other extreme is selflessness.

Which is, it's never about me. What I need and want never matters. It's, I always put other people first. That is just unrealistic and unhealthy. It doesn't lead to healthy relationships. It leads to bitterness and burnout and resentment and loneliness and this middle ground, what I began to study and become so interested in in my doctor work was this idea of selfhood.

And it's having a strong sense of self, and a strong sense of self says kind of a strong sense of self, understands this is what I want and need. I can't always get it, but I do know what it is and I am going to bring it to the table of this relationship because I'm also gonna honor what you want and need.

And then together, the two of us go, Okay, here's what I want, here's what I want. We figure out together how to be good friends or good spouses or good partners to each other. That's where we get into healthy relationships. It's about what both of us want and need, and so that's selfhood. It takes a strong sense of self to have healthy relationships, to be able to say, Listen, you think about negotiating in a marriage or even with a friend, it's like, I actually wanna go, you know, I actually don't wanna do this, but I love you, so I am gonna do this with you. But, but I do, and next time could we do it this way, Right? That's where we start to get into this beautiful dance of healthy relationships.

Yeah. It's not, not being a doormat, it's not being a pushover. That's what selflessness often has become. It's not the selflessness we see modeled in the life of Jesus.  

Gabi: Yeah, and I think it, I think it ties in so much to what we were saying at the beginning, if you're, if you've lived a life that has been mostly selfless, right, because that's what you were taught to do in the church, Right.

Or right in how whatever way you were raised, you were just taught, like I lay my life down over and over again. Which is also, you know, a term that we could talk about. To move into that selfhood area obviously is challenging and we touched on it a little bit, but for those who have just kind of been wrapped up in this selfless arena and want to actually figure out who they are and move bravely into that space of selfhood. Like I know for me, When I first started the journey was like, I have no idea who I am, honestly. I know exactly how to show up in the way people want me to, and they think that I'm confident and they think that I'm capable and all these things, but I don't actually know who is this person that I am, which you can't really have a good sense of selfhood if you don't know that. What are some tips that you would give someone who's kind of just like starting and saying, Yes, I want to know who I am. I want to have healthy selfhood, but I don't even know where to start.

Dr. Alison: Yeah, I, I always say to people, uh, start by getting curious. It starts kind of within you. Um, because again, oftentimes, especially we've been conditioned to focus on other people. We, we start with someone else getting me what I want, but it really starts getting curious and noticing. What do I want?

Like, um, even in the morning, like doing a little check-in. How am I feeling today? Am I tired? Am I sad? Am I resentful? Am I struggling with, you know, wanting to numb out? Am I kind of checking out? Am I jealous? Am I…no shame. Just curiosity and, and naming those things before God, inviting God into those things because when you start to get curious and pay attention to yourself, then you, The next question is, what do I, you know, Do I need? Well, why? I wonder why, you know, you start to become a student of yourself. Well, I wonder why I'm feeling angry again, curiosity not, not shaming. Wonder why? Well, you know, that really hurt me the other day. You know? Or I was on socials and got got tweaked again. You know, because socials is just a landmine for all the things.

Or you know, and what do I need to, to do? I need to talk to a friend. Do I need to let my spouse know that I'm having a rough day? Do I, do I need to be gentle with myself today? Cuz I'm going through something physically my body's hurting. You know, you start, it doesn't take a lot of time to just this practice of checking in with yourself, bringing it before God.

To me, this is prayer, right? We, you know, Calvin and Augustin both talked about how do I, how do I know God if I don't know myself? Because we're bringing ourselves to God. So we're saying, God, this is what's going on with me today. Help me, help me know how to, how to honor this sadness today. What does that mean?

Does it mean I need to, um, call in sick from work? Maybe not, but does it mean I need to, you know, just honor that part of me inside of me, or tell a friend, Hey, I'm Struggling. I don't know. But that's how I think it starts, is just that, that curiosity when you're doing the dishes, when you're driving in the car, just noticing, just like you would check in on a friend or check in with your kid, you're checking in with yourself.

Gabi: Yeah. That's really good. It's so simple, really. And I, I love that like you can incorporate it into, into, it could be your prayer. Like you said. We don't have to over-spiritualize it. I just love that. So good. And, um, it brings me to another, Portion of your book that I'd love to touch on, that I actually haven't had the chance to get to yet, but I'm like scrolling through and perusing what's coming next. And that is finding healthy friendships. Because obviously as we mentioned before, some of your relationships are gonna start shifting as you figure out who you are, what it is you want, you might even find out that the people you're in relationship aren't healthy, right? So I know there are a lot of Women like me, married for a while, might have a couple kids in our thirties, and we're like, How do I find healthy friends now that I'm figuring out who I am? I'd love to hear your input on that.

Dr. Alison: Yeah, I, I, I do a whole chapter on that because the first step is to kind of understand what our unhealthy, you know, what are the, some signs, and so I kind of go through what are the seven signs of maybe toxicity or unhealth in friendships, So kind of recognizing where there's unhealth.

And then, what it, so, cuz it's hard, I always say it's hard, you know, people always say it's hard to get where you, your goal if you don't know where you're, what you're shooting for. So then I draw a picture of what is a healthy friendship? What does it look like, what does it mean? And what are the qualities that matter to me?

What do I need? And, and you're right, you're so right. Different seasons of life change that, um, change what you need, you know, in my life, because I was single later in life and I had to find friends frequently because a lot of times, you know, a single person, most of my friends, your friends get married. So you kind of, the friendship changes and then they start having kids and the friendship changes again, right? And saying, Now then once I got married, you know, then what you need from friendships changes. And so healthy friendships can adjust, right? But we still have to tweak some things. We still might have to tweak expectations.

We might have to tweak. We have to learn how to ask for what we need, you know? We might have to say, Hey, I love you. I don't have the same capacity I had. How can we negotiate a new way of being together? So there's that category, and then finding new friends. You know, there, there are ways I, I talk about, and it sounds, we're not taught this, and I think it's so wise, it's to kind of test new friendships and it's not about testing the other person. It's about building trust with yourself, right? It's about going, Man, I've been hurt in a couple places before, so I like this person. We're getting closer.

I'm gonna practice kind of saying no to something because it's good for me and I wanna know that I can be authentic and say no to something. And I wanna see how they can respond. Can they honor? You'll find out. You know, that's just a little one, but it's like in little ways, you know, or you practice sharing vulnerability in a phased way, right? Instead of spilling everything, and now they're, you're at their mercy. You, you kind of get, you know, you say, Hey, there's there, here's some things that are going on with me. I'm not comfortable sharing it all with you now. You know, but here's, you know, and then you see if they can respect that, a good friend will respect that, and you'll, you build that trust over time.

So there's, there's ways we can be strategic when building new friendships of kind of testing. Putting our toe in the water and things are going well. Okay? And then sometimes I'll say, you might add structure to it. If things are going well, you say, Hey, what if we got together once a week for a walk? You know?

And things like that. You kind of, it's not unlike dating, right? You progressively get to know the other person, see if there's trust, see where you overlap. And it just creates a healthy foundation going forward.  

Gabi: That's so good. I think something that I've seen multiple times with myself with different friends, especially as you are entering a new season or you're feeling lonely or whatever, you are tempted, like you said, sometimes to just spill it all.You know, But I imagine that a healthy sense of self and the patience and ability to not spill it all go hand in hand. Um, what, what do you see as the importance of being patient and building the trust with someone in a new relationship? Like what is the importance of that patience and like that structure that you're talking about?

Dr. Alison: I think, you know, two things come to mind is I think of patience as a fruit of the Spirit, right? And oftentimes when we think of the fruit of the Spirit, we think of extending it toward others. So being patient with others, but really, and even in this case, it's being patient with yourself.

Because if you've been, parts of you are are scared. Parts of you are nervous about being hurt again, Justifiably so. Especially as adults, we've all been hurt. And so you're exercising that patience really with yourself, with that part of yourself that's like, I kind of like this person, but I'm scared, I'm nervous.

And so that's this internal work, this internal negotiation of going, Okay, well, It's again, all about building trust. It's like, but we're we're wiser. Now we're, we're, we know more now, but that part of you that's been heard is like, No, this is just gonna get good, bad again. And I see this all the time. People are like, I just have a terrible track record with friendships. And I'm like, we gotta do it a different way. Because you've gotta learn to trust yourself again in partnership with God. And so I think that patience is how you, It's not just to be patient with the other person, it's to show yourself, I'm not gonna go down a road again.

I've learned some things and if I notice red flags, if I notice toxicity, if I notice someone not respecting my boundaries, if I notice someone talking behind my back, if I notice someone, Kind of in general, a gossip or mean or manipulative. I will protect myself. I will not go down that road. And you're really building that trust with yourself.

Gabi: So good. That's so good. I mean, I'm just like, Mind is just like exploding over here. Yeah. Yeah. It's really, really powerful. That's so powerful. And we, we talk a lot about, I was just talking to a friend about this yesterday about like, how do we learn to trust other people? Yeah. But where does it actually start?

A hundred percent totally starts with learning how to build that trust with ourselves. A hundred percent best, like you're saying, which I absolutely love.

Dr. Alison: It’s so fascinating to me that we're never taught that, where we're taught to trust God. Yeah, we're taught, but it's like we're taught, we're not, we're told not to trust ourselves.

It's like, well that's a recipe for disaster because then we're just hoping to get lucky. When And again, trusting yourself is just trusting that discernment, that inner wisdom, cuz even the best of people will let us, you know, even in our marriages, in the best of marriages, in the best of friendships, there will come times where we have to trust ourself and go, I don't think they're right about that, and I still love them.

You know what I mean? We have to be the leader of our own lives and how do we do that? But inside our own spirit, in partnership with God, Kind of learn how to discern as we go.

Gabi: Yeah. And like you just said, a lot of us are taught not to trust ourselves.  And you mentioned that in your book too, you mentioned the scripture, like the heart is deceptive, and how that's so misconstrued and out of context and how as we partner with God, like that discernment is from God. Can you talk about that a little bit actually?

Dr. Alison: This, the passage of scripture.

Gabi: Yeah. I'd love to hear your thoughts on that.  

Dr. Alison: We unpack it even more, almost all in Boundaries for Your Soul, my first book, chapter two is almost a whole thing of that whole, that whole section. Cause it's just such a misused and so I, I go into it a little bit in The Best of You, but basically my understanding of Jeremiah and, you know, through my own research and talking with others, you know, he did say the, he's essentially, um, talking about the people of the time and in a, the few, the next few chapters, this very same prophet who said that the heart is deceptive and wicked prophesied about the coming of the Holy Spirit. This new thing that God was gonna do, which was to write his word that had been external, take it and write it on our hearts through the power of the Holy Spirit, which is what Jesus says in John 14. My, my Spirit will come and live in you and comfort you and be your counselor, your inner counselor.

I mean, which is just mind blowing. We're taught this, but think about it. That lives inside of me, that lives inside of you. Internal and in psychology we call that an internal locus of control, meaning I can look to myself in partnership with God's Spirit. I can notice the cues my body is sending me. Man, I gotta lump a pit in my stomach after that conversation, God help me discern, help me discern some of those cues come from our bodies, from our emotions, from the ways God designed us. And we take those things into partnership with God's Spirit and, and learn again how to be wise in how we show up with others.

Gabi: Yeah. Okay. I just love how your face just lit up when you were talking about like Jeremiah and the prophecy, and then the fulfillment. Cause I, I mean, I'll just geek out about that stuff all day. Like I could go on that rabbit hole. It's so cool to see like your, I know this was your goal with the book and with the podcast and anything was just the combination of the Bible, theology and psychology and how amazing it is. To find that practices and these things that you're learning are healthy, are actually biblical. Yes, exactly. Like how cool is that? It just blows my mind. It makes me so excited and geek out about that kind of stuff. So I love, I just got really stoked when I watched your face talk about that.

Um, but the, yeah, this is all so important and so needed in our day. And I know there are just a lot of women who are confused and they feel like there's got to be a better way. And honestly, as I've been reading your book and listening to your podcast, the biggest sense that I have is like so many women are going to feel relief.

Like there's just gonna be so much relief from this burden that we've been carrying around of like, I need to ignore that signal that I'm being sent or, and actually I can follow those cues because this is the way that I'm designed. Thank you for your amazing voice. It's so needed and I look forward to seeing like what else you're going to do and just, I, I've been telling, like I said, I've been telling all my friends about your podcast, about the book, because I think it's so necessary and so needed. I would love to just give you the opportunity if there's anything else that you would really love to share before we go. And also let us know how we can connect with you, like what's the best way to find you, social media, all that kind of stuff.

I'll put your links in the show notes as well, but go ahead and just share whatever you'd like to close us off.  

Dr. Alison: Thank you so much. I, I appreciate seeing your face light up too. It means a lot to me, these conversations and just seeing the, the words resonate, you know, kind of out of 20 years of my own struggle and 20 years of working with women and going, Man, this, this is, we're just missing this piece that just seems so critical. Um, and I think, yeah, I just, the one thing I would add is I think the, the needle that I'm trying to thread and I think you are too, is, you know, in our culture, we can go so far with self, capital S, being the only source, right? And that was why it was important to me and the how do we put your true self in God?

It's a partnership, right? It's, we know ourselves wholly as we connect into the God who made us. So, um, you know, and that's just such a, you Know, so you get, you get kind of issues on both sides. We're, we're not supposed to have a self at all, or it's only about the self. So I really appreciate that you picked up on that.

That's a key piece for me. Um, the book is anywhere books are sold. The Best of You: Break Free From Painful Patterns, Mend Your Past, & Discover Your True Self in God. Um, I've got a free, um, a lot of freebie guides at my website, Dr. Cook, dralisoncook.com, A l i s o n.com and I'm on Instagram and Facebook @dralisoncook.

Gabi: Amazing. Well, I cannot thank you enough for giving your time to this today. I know so many people are going to be encouraged by this interview. I know that I've been encouraged by your work. Thank you. Um, you're just amazing and I pray just that your whole ministry, everything that you do will continue to be blessed.

And, um, again, just grateful for your voice. So thank you for your time.

Dr. Alison: Thanks for having me, Gabi. I really appreciate it. Great conversation.  

Gabi: Thank you. I'm sure we'll connect again soon.